Sunday, June 01, 2014

Seattle Schools This Week

Wednesday, June 4nd
School Board meeting, starting at 4:15 pm. Agenda.

It is quite a long agenda with a longer-than-usual Consent agenda.  I was surprised to see a item like this not being discussed with Intro and then Action but they need to get work done on the North Queen Anne  Elementary School as soon as possible for the move in of the Cascade Parent Partnership Program.   I find this also disturbing in its rush as there is no contract attached to this Consent item (and may not be until Tuesday).  Not a lot of time for public review on spending over $400k in capital dollars.  The very odd notation for where the revenue is coming from is "capital funds."  BEX IV?  BTA III? CIP?  What? 

I also raise the concern over BEX IV funds being used to replace the elevator at Jane Addams Middle School. This elevator has been problematic for several years and yet it was NOT on BEX IV.  The BEX IV funding for JAMS is very small at $7.3M and did not include this elevator.  This is NOT a renovation, it's a replacement and should be coming out of BTA III which IS for big maintenance.  I suspect less will get done at JAMS because of this money shift.

I also note the inclusion of an item on the Consent agenda to keep a 2.0 GPA average to participate in athletics.  This is a source of many discussions around the district.  

Action Items (partial):

First one up (and good thing) is Math Adoption.  It will likely take quite awhile as Board directors hash this out and the staff makes its case.   

Then there is the update to the PE policy which is swell but has no dollars to cover it so it's basically nice words on paper.  I do realize that the district has many forces pushing it (like new pushes from the Legislature) but I also have seen this kind of rubberstamping and promising to get to funding it someday before.

Intro Items (partial):
I note that the Student Rights & Responsibilities Handbook is on this part of the agenda.  I find that interesting because the district says it is quite strict on the issues of violence/threats/use of weapons against other students/staff  - indeed, calling it "zero tolerance" and yet I know of one incident where a high school student had a weapon, threatened to use it against another student (this AFTER a fight nearby the school the previous week with the same student) and yet, this student only got suspended for two days.

I am astonished if only for the safety of other students and staff.  I believe at this point this student was moved to another school but that really is not the issue.  What is the policy for dealing with students who act violently towards other students/staff? If it's not expulsion or long-term suspension, then the district is setting itself up for a lawsuit.

There's also a couple of  items about Sped students.  One is that schools were not aware of the significance of Disability History Month and their obligation to recognize it.

The other item is around training teachers, bus monitors, security staff and administrators on proper use of isolation and restraint for students with IEPs and 504 Plans.

Editor's note:
President Peaslee didn't have many community meetings this year and apologized at the last Board meeting saying she had many meetings to go to and would try to do better next school year.  I note that KaySmith-Blum and Michael DeBell did have their meetings when they were both Board president.  Smith-Blum did one once a month and then concentrated on school visits and DeBell still had community meetings.  (Peaslee said she would like to have school invite her for visits but I think that makes it difficult for the general parent/public population as one school might have specific questions pertinent to their school.)

There is a Board retreat next Saturday, June 7th, starting at 10:30 am in the JSCEE auditorium. 


Charlie Mas said...

One of the action items on the agenda is the Superintendent evaluation tool. This tool includes the following S.M.A.R.T. goals for the superintendent:

1 - Implement the professional development for Common Core

2 - Implement Tier I of MTSS. This means consistent academic expectations across all schools. Good luck with that.

3 - Complete the professional development required by the Special Education Comprehensive Corrective Action Plan.

4 - 100% implementation of performance evaluations

5 - Develop annual and long-term capacity management plans

6 - A transportation plan

7 - A technology plan

8 - Figure out what is wrong with HR

9 - Align the budget with the strategic plan

10 - Improve the District's culture by making the senior staff feel like they are involved. Seriously. Read it.

11 - Improve the District's culture by setting a clear vision and expectations for staff.

12 - Stick to the budget

Charlie Mas said...

The Board will also adopt a self-evaluation tool. It includes these S.M.A.R.T. goals:

1 - Monitor the Strategic Plan

2 - Monitor the budget

3 - Delegate management to the superintendent

4 - Engage under-represented communities

5 - Think and talk more about the achievement gap

What's not here? Write policy. Enforce policy. Oversee management. Represent the public. You know, their job.

Anonymous said...

Also on the consent agenda (instead of listed as an action item) is the budget transfer of $550,000 from the BEXIV contingency fund to cover the expenses of incorporating the Pinehurst/Indian Heritage K-8 program into the middle school.

I guess this item was deemed closed for discussion, because the Board had already rather blindly voted to do this, without having a feasibility or cost study done ahead of time?

Who makes up the meeting agenda?

The background info on the W-P consent agenda item breaks down the costs, including costs for additional architect fees, increasing the square footage of the kindergarten room, putting in a separate entrance for the K-8, re-routing plumbing, additional network and food service costs, additional costs to accommodate PE etc...

Also this:
During the meetings to integrate the new program into the Middle School design, there was a
need identified for an outdoor Physical Education program area that could be utilized to
accommodate the Pinehurst K-8 program, while the middle school gym was in full use. There is
roughly 1,000 square feet of outdoor play area in the middle school courtyard, which could be
used for this purpose if covered with synthetic turf material. Approximate cost for this scope is
$135,000 in addition to the $550,000. This scope of work will be designed and bid as an
alternate, similar to the synthetic turf material for the athletic fields in the middle of the project

So, the K-8 kids get OUTDOOR Seattle? Nice!

Will they be having PE in one of the outdoor courtyards between the wings of the middle school?

No mention of library accommodations for the K-8. Maybe they will somehow share the grade 6-8 library in the W-P middle school building and the K-5 library in the W-P elementary school building? That should be fun to schedule!

I wish the NW Executive Director the best of luck in finding qualified principals and staff to work at the W-P campus.

- reality check

Melissa Westbrook said...

Reality Check, I also question how it can only cost under $700K to redo an entire area for a K-8 program and yet it would cost $12M for one auditorium. Hmm.

Ditto on Charlie.

Anonymous said...

Here's a link to a current middle school auditorium project in Kansas for a new auditorium. $4.5 million. Let's say it costs double to do construction in Seattle than in Kansas. That's still only $9 million.

Baloney on SPS. It just doesn't want to do the project period.


Anonymous said...

Re-post from earlier thread:
(I got and "Amen" for this from Mirmac1, so I figured it may be worth re-posting here.)

The district is in a pickle on this. The Board and community clearly want the Dual Adoption, but the Instructional Materials Committee (IMC), of which Shauna Heath is a member, doesn't.

But the IMC's recommendation may be required to get the dual adoption. The Statute does read that way, although being silent to many other possibilities. And apparently the MAC and/or Board were advised that they could adopt their own recommendations as well.

Elsewhere I have found legislative comments and summaries which state that Boards can add or subtract materials, but it's not in the statute at hand. So it's hard to say how a Court would read something like the Dual Adoption. Aren't they technically accepting the recommendation, but just adding alternatives to it? Does that mean they are in effect, denying the recommendation? Is any change or modification equivalent to a "no" vote?

The district has ignored Board Policy and State Law in the past, but one possible course is to send the recommendation back through the IMC requesting a change to a dual adoption, as BTDT suggests. But what if they refuse? That's the $64k question.

And if they can do that, then who's really in charge? Our elected, publicly accountable School Board? Or untouchable public administrators?

There's an inherent conflict in the OSPI-sanctioned process which is prone to stand-offs like we may be about to witness between the Board and the IMC. How is the Board the ultimate authority, when all they can say is "yes" or "no." This process allows the IMC to say, "this is what WE want, take it or leave it. But WE get the ultimate choice, not you."

Frankly, I'm curious to watch this play out, because the current statutory framework and Board policies may entrust the ultimate decisions over what our kids read, study and do, not with the Board, but with career administrators, which isn't right.

As for litigation prospects, I'm not that so worried, because there's no contractual interference or breaches to allege at this point. (And do Pearson and others involved want us to see their e-mails?)

Finally, I see is a need for some updated Board Policies, including changes to the waiver process so schools don't have to pay their own freight while we taxpayers pay for un-boxed, unused books we didn't want, and so they don't have to pass through three levels of review, before reaching the Superintendant's desk for a thumbs up or thumbs down.

Having said all that, this fight is more political than legal. We, the community, need to retake control of our schools and vest it in the hands of accountable, elected board members, after almost a decade of recovery from prior boards who sought to outsource it to consultants, big companies and corporate philosophers who rule our economies, for better or worse. (And how'd they do, by the way? Not so good, IMHO.)


Anonymous said...


But they really aren't accommodating a K-8 program at W-P. They just say they are.

A K-8 program would, in theory at least, have at least one classroom per grade. 150 students works out to about one class per grade for a K-5, not a K-8. This would be 6 classrooms-worth of students, not 9 classrooms. I know that Pinehurst has mult-age classrooms, so perhaps that is how they will manage under the conditions they have been given.

Isn't there some rule that one PCP space is given for every 8 classrooms (I think I heard this somewhere)? To me, it sounds like they are setting the Pinehurst/Indian Heritage enrollment at only 150 students so that they can avoid having to designate additional space for PCP. Also, what about science labs? Will the K-8 program have access to science labs? Will the K-8 kids be able to take middle school classes with the comprehensive middle school kids, like band or world language, or will they be shut out of these classes that are taking place in their building?

Perhaps carving a native canoe in one of the outdoor courtyards will count for PCP space for Pinehurst/Indian Heritage, and making the K-8 kids do PE outdoors will suffice for the required PE space...but this is not, IMO, accommodating a K-8 program in a comprehensive middle school building, at least not to the standards of support for other K-8 programs in Seattle receive.

I'm not convinced that "A careful integration of a
150 student K-8 program into an 850 student middle school program has been accomplished." (this is stated in the background of the W-P budget transfer agenda item).

For all the talk of other "successful hybrid programs" (a favorite statement from the Kay Smith-Blum era), have they ever given a concrete example where there are two co-housed programs with different grade bands within the same building?

I have heard that Eastlake HS (Sammamish)shares its campus with a small (95 student) grade 6-8 program, Renaissance School for Art and Reasoning. From their webpage, it looks like Renaissance School is housed in a separate building, somewhat removed from the high school building. I called Renaissance, and confirmed that they are in a separate building, and that their grade 6-8 students only share the lunch room and library with the high school.

Eastlake High School's campus is also massive, with tons of fields and parking, which is sadly not the case for what's been designed for the Wilson-Pacific campus.

There are very good reasons to keep access to smaller K-8 programs, but if they truly want to support the Pinehurst/Indian Heritage K-8 program, they should, at the very least, design a separate wing onto the middle school building, and increase the core capacity of the building to 1250 (an auditorium would be nice, too).

- reality check

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...


I believe this statement from the BEXIV Overview webpage ( summarizes the logic of putting off large maintenance expenses (such as the JA building elevator) until BEXIV funds become available:

"Seventeen major building projects will result in new schools, replacement schools or modernized schools. By replacing or renovating school buildings, Seattle Public Schools is not just creating better learning and teaching environments. These projects also reduce the maintenance backlog by updating or replacing aging structures."

Apparently, replacing an elevator (the ONLY elevator in the building, BTW) that has been out of service for at least a year qualifies, in SPS' perspective, as a "modernization" expense. I was told by one SPS staff person that it is coming out of the JA building repurposing (BEXIV) budget because having a functional elevator will "benefit" the JAMS community.

In an era where a functional elevator in a two-story school building is viewed as a "benefit," I can see why something like an auditorium is viewed as a luxury.

Yes, I too wonder what work is going to be booted from the JAMS project in order to pay for the elevator. The scope was already pretty tight, with projects focused on carving out classroom and science lab spaces. It is not a full-building renovation, like Hamilton, Roosevelt, Hale, etc...

- North-end Mom

kellie said...

The entire facilities question is a big sticky issue with no good answers. The bottom line of all the facility stuff is that it takes a long time to turn a battle ship and that turning the ship is just something that seems almost impossible when it is barreling full steam ahead.

The closures "started" in 2002 and finally finished in 2008. In 2002, closing schools seemed like a good idea. However, by 2008, there was more than enough evidence that the closures were unnecessary and the NSAP, designed to create enrollment growth, was coming in another year. However, SPS had to barrel ahead simply because so much energy was invested over six years and there had to be something to show for it.

I can certainly understand the desire of a bureaucratic process to want to move forward to completion on something. I truly understand the desire for SPS to want to complete the six year BEX cycle as designed. So the question becomes, How much evidence do you need that enrollment growth has simply outpaced BEX planning?

The issue of the K8 within Wilson Pacific is a great way to focus this larger conversation. There "wasn't enough room" for the Pinehurst K8 as part of BEX IV. So rather than re-visit the BEX process and simply say, hey, there wasn't enough room and we are short one school, let's solve this. There is this "work-around" of putting the K8 into some space that looked not-quite-full.

That is a very reasonable choice, as long as all of the assumption in that choice are real and there truly is lots and lots of excess space at the middle school level so that there is no inherent conflict.

Meg did a beautiful analysis recently that showed that the 2014 school year will have the enrollment that was anticipated in the BEX planning for the 2018 school year. Oops. Now we have an inherent conflict.

That is why there is so much tension on this issue. If the 2012 projection data were still correct then in 2017 when Wilson Pacific opened, there would be space for the middle school and a K8. However, the enrollment growth is continuing to accelerate and as such, there is real concern that most of this will need to be "re-done" as part of the next BTA cycle.

mirmac1 said...

reality check, Pinehurst has combined classrooms K-1 etc.

mirmac1 said...

I read the RCW re: instructional materials adoption as similar to the statutory requirement to base selection of A/E professional services on qualifications only. The legislature felt it important enough to remove the consideration of cost from the selection process.

As I reviewed the public record emails, it appears clear to me that the district crossed the boundaries that RCW 28A.320.230 meant to erect, namely use qualitative measures to identify the best curriculum. The duties of Purchasing, the Instructional Materials Specialist and the Math Adoption Committee/Coordinator seem blurred with proposals, counter-proposals and negotiations, the effects of which are evident in emails such as this from a member of the Adoption Committee:

"Hello Mr. Tolley,

I am forwarding this message to you because I am concerned about the amount of focus that is being placed on the cost of adopting a new math curriculum. My personal and professional goal of being on this committee is to put forward the best math program for our students.

The emphasis on price and training is something that has certainly tainted perceptions of those on the committee and will have an impact at Friday’s meeting. I’m not sure what can be done about it but after your reassuring message last week, I thought you should continue to be made aware of this situation."

Or this one among MAC members:

"Subject: RE: Final pricing on our three final programs

Isn't it super unrealistic to think we would be able to request more money to the tune of over $4 million dollars for year one? This would be more than double what the district budgeted. Does it make sense to even include it in our ratings?"

Finally, among staff:

"Given our conversation with Shauna earlier in the week and given that she is out of contact for the next couple of weeks, unless you ask me not to, I would like to "reply all" that Shauna encourages the committee to concentrate on finding the best possible book for our students, independent of the cost. This doesn't mean there are unlimited funds, it is just to help the committee focus on the task of using their expertise to select the best possible book.Thanks,"

Indications are that the review, recommendation, and procurement process is flawed. The process itself did not follow Board Policy 2015, nor meet the spirit of the RCW. The board should not feel constrained to approve a faulty process and its end product.

Melissa Westbrook said...

" Will the K-8 program have access to science labs?" (re:Wilson Pacific)

I can answer yes to that. That was discussed at an Operations Ctm. meeting but that's on paper. What the reality will be is something else.

I appreciate the info on why the district considers the elevator a "modernization"; I consider it a necessity.

Anonymous said...

Anyone knows if it would be possible to build WP higher? Add an additional floor or two, & perhaps have a green roof or a rain garden for science & runoff control? Since we are so short on land and the neighborhood is against more than one building & loss of neighborhood field space, could we not build up?

I've read that NYC has several schools that share building space. Sometimes even drastically different programs like public schools cohousing with charter schools. Maybe we should study how they do it.

I keep hearing 150 number for AS1-Indian Heritage. But that is the student population at Pinehurst, correct? Why are the Indian Heritage students not counted in this project? Does anyone know how many Native Americans are in SPS? How many will be coming in the next few years? Seems weird and wrong that they are not counted.

Honestly, the way Native American students are treated in this district is absolutely disgraceful. 21st Century, and here we still are.


Anonymous said...

@Kellie: "That is a reasonable choice..."

Beg to differ. Even if this district had oddles of space.

From a facilities point of view, this is an unreasonable and bizarre choice, regardless of space constraints. There was NO due diligence; NO community engagement.

There's no space left. 600 elementary students stowed at Lincoln who are waiting for 6 years to move into their elementary school at Wilson Pacific is clear example of how out of space the system is....

But, consider the left-over Decatur building at Thornton Creek (the one SPS staff claimed they would knock down after the new building was built -remember Pegi McEvoy saying that? Funny!). Decatur can be a perfect k8 home -small, but not too small, available in just 2 years, not usable for anything else, close to their original school and on and the same side of I5. It allows them to build and sustain a strong identity free from uncertainty of facilities pressure. Stability in is critical to build a community that can grow!

Even if there was space at the new middle school (and there is not), putting a K8 of 130 students into a comprehensive secondary middle school of 1,000 withOUT a feasibility study and withOUT community consultation and withOUT even enlarging it to accommodate everybody is absolutely the worst of the worst in terms of process, fairness, and equity. This is a bad outcome due to no attention paid to implementation. The Board wanted to save AS1, so did I. But, they did a placement that made no sense, is unfunded, and, will permanently mess up a secondary comprehensive school's circulation (science rooms were distributed but were moved, meaning internal movement of students is forever locked into inefficiency).

The board didn't try to stuff the k8 into Eckstein, Hamilton, or Whitman or even JAMS because they KNEW parents would HOWL and SCREAM and it would be soooo ridiculous, the board knew they just couldn't get away with doing this to an existing group of stakeholders. Hence, enter WilPac, a school many elementary parents had no real sense that it would be theirs as their kids aged up into middle school, so, they put it there. Asked why they didn't put it into DeCatur, one board member said, she 'didn't think about it much'. Another board director said, they didn't say it had to be in the Wilson Pacific middle school... etc. Dr. Herndon and Mr. Banda, the day after that vote were asked about reaching out to the board to offer a more efficient and effective solution, but they didn't want to take any leadership whatsoever.

Indian Heritage, a 'school' or 'program' with no students was always slated to be a Wilson Pacific Middle School. The SDAT presentations included it way, way, back. So, this is not about inclusion of that program in the Wilson Pacific Middle School, because, it was always included.

AS1 was fighting for its life, and touted their gay-friendly environment to the board when pleading their case. It was only at the last board meeting that they glommed onto Indian Heritage as a way to try and save themselves. Tribal groups advocating for educational outcomes for their communities' students need to be heard, and, personally, I don't think they need white people to state their case. They are passionate and well-informed advocates who speak best for their own needs from their own experience. However, in this case, I can see how the 'white people' needed them. Obviously, AS1 is a wonderfully diverse school, but it was curious that AS1 did not mention their concern for Indian students, not once, to the board, until the final meeting.

Facilities Planning!

Anonymous said...


150 is about what Pinehurst is at now, but they have been larger in the past.

As far as building higher...the middle school at W-P is already at 3 stories, plus additional "penthouses" to hide the mechanical stuff. The elementary school is two stories, plus similar "penthouse" structures.

They are already asking for code departures for higher than code building height for both buildings, and, judging from the comments from nearby residents at last week's departures meeting, building any higher than what is planned would not be well-received by those living across the street from the building.

- North-end Mom

Anonymous said...


Meanwhile, if Seattle's First Nations families wanted an all-city draw Indian-focused whole school with a cultural center, they should have it. That community deserves it. The Urban Native Education Alliance spoke of a K-12 school and cultural center to educate their children. If that community had a vision to implement such a school at the Daybreak Star Cultural Center (it has classrooms), SPS ought to do it: make an agreement and rent the space and provide the transport. After all, this district once tried a culturally-focused school approach with the AAA. SPS can work to create a positive place for learning that will nurture bright young minds in a culturally-sensitive and meaningful way in collaboration with UNEA. Indian Heritage at the Wilson Pacific middle school will still be there, that doesn't preclude the community from moving forward with a more ambitious vision of an all-city Indian-focused k-12 school/cultural center.

The K8 could have had their own whole school, whole gym, whole library at DeCatur, retaining their new native-focused curriculum. Decatur would allow them to grow to 300. That would even give them a feeder school of Thornton Creek for their middle school, as elementary children in the alternative option program of Thornton Creek would have seen the AS1 alternative option K8 school as a great choice.

It may ultimately finish AS1 if parents are unwilling to send 6 year olds to a campus of at least 1700 with another 1600 high school students who will come to use the fields.

The 3 communities involved, the middle school, the K8, and Indian Heritage, deserve better solutions. A new, strong middle school to serve the north inclusive of Indian Heritage, a stand-alone K8 in the south NE (to balance out BT in the NW, ESTEM K8 in the north NE, Salmon Bay in the south NW), and an all-city draw new Indian-focused K-12 alternative option school, created to address the needs of an underrepresented community, whose children's social, emotional and academic needs are not being successfully met.

Planning should optimize the right circumstances for everyone, and we should challenge the district and the board to do better. The K8 deserves to build their identity and sense of place in a truly permanent home. The current arrangement may not deliver that opportunity.

Facilities Planning!

Melissa Westbrook said...

FP, strong words.

How are Native American students counted? With great difficulty, apparently. (I say that because the staff at JSCEE got it wrong three times and got dinged every single time by the feds.) I think it is, of course, self-identified but beyond that, not sure.

"If that community had a vision to implement such a school at the Daybreak Star Cultural Center (it has classrooms), SPS ought to do it: make an agreement and rent the space and provide the transport. After all, this district once tried a culturally-focused school approach with the AAA."

I actually like this idea because I think the people to provide culturally competent curriculum are the people who best know it. That said, knowing something is not the same as being able to teach it. I have a feeling if the Native American community was given these assurances by the district, they would love to determine what is best for their students (with help from experts) And fyi, AAA could be a study in how NOT to create a program.

As for co-housing like in NYC with regular schools and charters, all I can say is, "Don't do it." There has been so much outcry, bitterness and favoritism. It won't work if there is inbalance between the programs.

Lynn said...

It's not actually a school for Native students though - is it? There will be a native-centered curriculum - but they won't have an enrollment preference and transportation will be provided only from one geo-zone.

Anonymous said...


You write that white people should not decide for Native Americans, but there YOU are, DECIDING that they should be shunted to Day Break Center.

Lincoln is 4 stories high. Roosevelt is also several stories high.

There are apartment and condo complexes being built all over town, all with many more floors than 4 or 5. Why would that neighborhood have the right to dictate building height when other neighborhoods don't? Do you KNOW that they are against it? Are you part of that neighborhood? If not then it sounds like you are just shooting down any solution that does not require AS1 and Indian Heritage to leave WP. Why is that?

Wallingford just passed a code requiring new constructions to be multi-stories, they are interested in sustainability, may be WP neighborhood would see the benefit of that also. Have you asked them?

Furthermore, there have been several people on this blog advocating for building a giant HS at WP instead. Can a GIANT highschool be only 3 stories high? Especially one with AUDITORIUM and large athletic fields? Would you be as concerned about the neighborhood's wishes if they were against the GIANT HS? I'm pretty sure the neighborhood would not be warm and fuzzy about the parking spaces needed for a 2000 students HS. Many teens drive! That was one of the reasons given on this blog against reopening Lincoln as a HS: traffic & parking.

The Decatur building has been there all this time, and SPS almost killed Pinehurst last year. Clearly SPS won't consider that option.

GLOM onto Indian Heritage? Indian Heritage welcomed the merger with Pinehurst. Who are you to question THEIR FREE CHOICE?

And No, we are neither at Pinehurst nor Indian Heritage. I just find these efforts to shuffle other less vocal or less well connected communities around really distasteful. Choice for YOU but not for THEM? Separate and equal?

BTW, several of the classrooms at Day Break Star Center are used by their headstart program. It's a successful Birth to 5 program that has been there many years. Are you advocating that they move out to make room for this Native American school you envision? Or are you advocating that they have classes there for kids birth to 21?
I've read many people on this blog upset over their elementary kids cohousing with MEDICALLY FRAGILE Teens. It's not okay for US to cohouse programs, but it's totes okay for Native American kids then?



Anonymous said...

Perhaps the Urban Native Education Alliance wants to have a K-12 at Daybreak Star. I do not know anything about this so I'm not qualified to comment. However, Indian Heritage WANTS to be at Licton Springs. It is sacred to them. They have said this MANY times. Maybe we should listen. It's their land that we stole. They have a legitimate claim to Licton Springs.

Quoting FP: "Indian Heritage, a 'school' or 'program' with no students was slated to be at WPMS....So, this is not about inclusion of that program at WPMS, it was always included".
What does this mean? You are okay with including Indian Heritage at WPMS as long as the 'school' or 'program' HAS NO STUDENTS? And why the quote unquote over 'school' or 'program'? What do the quotes mean? They don't exist? They don't deserve to exist? They're really invisible and we totes don't mind including them 'cause heck, "a 'school' or 'program' with NO students" will not take up any space or require any resources at all, right?

(I was accused of shouting before when I capitalize words, so I want to be clear that the capitalization is used for emphasis, not screaming. I don't know how to do italics).


Anonymous said...

You wrote "There are apartment and condo complexes being built all over town, all with many more floors than 4 or 5. Why would that neighborhood have the right to dictate building height when other neighborhoods don't? Do you KNOW that they are against it? Are you part of that neighborhood?"

I'll assume these questions are directed at me, since I was the one to comment on building height.

There are City codes regulating building height. Both the elementary school and middle school buildings planned for Wilson-Pacific exceed the height specified by City code, therefore there are ongoing departures/variances meetings for these and other departures of City code (like parking, on-street busing, etc...) at Wilson-Pacific.

No, I do not live in the immediate neighborhood surrounding Wilson-Pacific, but I did attend the departures committee meeting last week, during which many concerned citizens spoke up and some commented that they do not want to look out the windows of their homes at a 3 story school building. So, that is how I know that at least some of the Wilson-Pacific neighbors would be against a taller building.

- North-end Mom

Josh Hayes said...

I suppose there'd be some variation in that. I DO live in the WP neighborhood (about three blocks), and I'd be perfectly happy to see a three-story building there.

As for the wisdom of putting AS1 and Indian Heritage there, and together, I wholeheartedly support that. I think that program needs to be as accessible as possible for an all-city draw. Putting it right off Aurora, with excellent access via Metro, seems like a great idea to me. I do believe that the WP site should house as many seats as possible, however, with the looming deluge of students SPS is facing. There's just no excuse for not building big.

Disclosure: I am a longtime AS1 parent, but in about two weeks, I will no longer have a kid there. The fact that the school's enrollment for next year is higher than this year, even at the interim site, strikes me as a good sign.

Greenwoody said...

Height questions should play no role whatsoever in assessing this proposal. It's a public school, an essential piece of public infrastructure. It should be as tall as it needs to be to serve the students of Seattle. The neighbors may not like it, but we can't let their opinions guide this discussion.

W-P is an opportunity that can't be squandered. If it needs to be built out to a higher capacity, then that's what needs to happen.

Anonymous said...

I think I have missed something. Here we are trying to cram too many populations into the proposed WP site but could someone explain what will happen at the large Thornton Creek elementary site (if anything). I have not heard what the plans for this location are but given the impending capacity disaster we have- why is SPS not building on the HUGE play field at thornton Creek. I know this idea was very unpopular with those neighbors who's houses overlook the current play field as well as folks who wanted the field to remain available for sports (I actually think the neighbors co-opted this as a reason, since their own 'spoils the view' reasons are pretty indefensible). I'd be appalled to find out this site is not being used to its maximum potential as a much needed school because of neighbors protecting their outlook and property values and sports teams preserving their practice grounds.

School trumps sports

Lynn said...


I'm curious to whom you're referring when you say "Indian Heritage WANTS to be at Licton Springs?" You must be aware that there is currently no Indian Heritage school or program. It does not exist today - noting that fact isn't an insult.

It sounds like you're more familiar with the planning process for this school than most people. Do you have any information on how the planning process for the new curriculum is going? As enrollment next fall will be almost at the 150 capacity for the new location - I'd expect they're not planning to do much recruiting - is that right? Has the Superintendent indicated that he'll be recommending a name change for either building at the site? (Unless the board approves a change, the new building will retain the Current name - Woodrow Wilson School.)

Lynn said...

Here's the plan for the New Thornton Creek Building. The existing building will remain. The last I heard was that it might be used as an early learning center.

Anonymous said...

A new school is being built at Thornton Creek. A large elementary. So there will be an extra 150 seat building (that is currently housing a 400 kid school).

There's a lawsuit in the works right now over Wilson Pacific, to keep it short, and also shrink it to one building. At both community meetings someone was passing out documentation In support of their lawsuit. I support a large high school there (instead of the middle school/elementary school), and that would obviously be larger. So I completely agree with the above posters that it's a necessary piece of infrastructure, and communities should stand behind the district when they use district land to try to educate students. But not everybody feels that way, and the district fairly notoriously caves in the face of community litigation, even with baseless claims. I wouldn't exactly say taller is a nonstarter, but the larger community is certainly speaking loud and clear against it. Please come to the meetings and disagree, especially if you are local, and triply so if you won't have kids bussed there. That kids were going to be bussed in REALLY was making them mad. I am pretty mortified. I used to think of Seattle as an education valuing kind of place, long ago.

Lastly, have you been to daybreak center? That is not shunting. It is an amazing space. And UIATF is doing wonderful work with native kids. They would be a fantastic partner.

And to be clear, I remember the upset about cohousing medically fragile teens and elementary students. The plan was presented to elementary parents as "severe special ed ages 18-21 will be in the south wing." People legitimately asked, "uh, what? Why are 18-21 year olds still in the system? Is that for delinquency? Or what?" And when they were told it was for medical fragility, severe medical needs, the response was "ah. That makes sense." I don't see why they should have known that, though, or why it's unreasonable to wonder if it was for criminal behavior if that was the best fit for cohousing with an elementary.


mirmac1 said...

CCA is correct. I understand that leaders of the Clear Sky Youth Council, a community organization that has done more to help native american students than any Gates-fronted CBO, has called for a K-8 at Licton Springs. No K-12, no Daybreak Star, no white people backing out of commitments and moving them around like pawns.

And Robert Eaglestaff's name should replace that colonialist Wilson's name on a new school.

Anonymous said...

Daybreak is awesome.

And the last I read (In Seattle Times) they had lost so much federal money due to sequester (and that includes loss of head start money) that they were in very difficult financial situation.

It is worth exploring whether Daybreak would be interested in partnering w/a Heritage school - b/c it is building the community from the ground up, b/c yes, I think there are zero students enrolled right now. (I know that is largely due to SPS mismanagement of the program, but it's not a thriving program with 50 kids, just saying).

Remember, Native American students, like any student, can go to their attendance area school. They don't HAVE to go to the Heritage program. I think I read that the largest number of Native students are currently at Hale - so I've never really understood why SPS wasn't trying to provide services where the kids are already, rather than trying to remove them from the school they're in.

I understand Licton Springs has heritage ties. But a lot of urban Indians are from lots of other tribes - not Northwest tribes from this area - if you're a Spokane Tribe member, or a Puyallup or a Sioux or a Hopi - is Licton Springs part of your heritage so much that you would want to go to school there rather than at your current school? I don't know.

Has SPS asked the kids?

Nowhere in the debate do I ever see evidence that the students themselves want to go to school at WP in a heritage program. Why is that preferable to special supports and services offered in conjunction with an attendance area school?

Has anyone talked about offering support at Hale and other schools, a rotating counselor, etc, and building a community house on the WP property, but not a school program?

SPS can't force the kids to enroll, so who's coming to the Native Heritage program when it combines with AS1?

Anonymous said...

OOPS FORGOT TO SIGN the comment about Native Heritage!

Sign me - wondering

Anonymous said...


Carole Simmons has posted here several times about Indian Heritage's need to have their school at Licton Springs, which has spiritual sacredness for them. She has also posted about the name they requested for the joined AS1-Indian Heritage program. And recently she posted an open invitation on this blog for their dinner, documentary and info night.

Sleeper, yes I have been to DayBreak Star Center several times. It is very beautiful, but part of what make it so beautiful is the huge open space in the middle of the building. There are not that many classrooms there. And the headstart Birth to 5 program is already there. So you think it is all cool to have Birth to 21 kids in the same building?
Anyway, the point is Indian Heritage wants to be at Licton Springs. It is sacred.

Since I am not Native American, why don't you all read these words from their community: by-matt-remle/

"A little over a century ago, European colonizers moved into the lands of the Duwamish, pushing them out in sometimes violent fashion. Duwamish long houses were set ablaze by white settlers, destroying sacred lands and sites in the process.
History seems to be truly repeating itself as descendants of those colonizers are set to once again push out Native families with a project that could eliminate one of the last remaining Duwamish sacred sites to make room for a school designed to benefit the areas non Native and affluent children and families."
"Perhaps it would serve the areas non-native population well to go relisten to the great Duwamish Chief for whom this city is named before it destroys Licton Springs and further desecrate the lands of his descendants."

"Every part of the Earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clear and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.
The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our people never forget this beautiful Earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the Earth, and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters, the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and the man, all belong to the same family.
This shining water that moves in streams and rivers are not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you land, you must remember that it is sacred blood of our ancestors. If we sell you land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred, and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells of events in the life of my people. The waters murmur is the voice of my father's father."

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. We have learned nothing.



Charlie Mas said...

The District did not consider the Decatur building as a location for AS1 because they had decided to end the program and therefore had to come up with some bullshit reason why it could not move into Decatur. Once they had that reason (the building wouldn't be available for another two years) they were committed to it and couldn't back down.

This is the cost of a dysfunctional culture. We can't do something reasonable because the politics required us to come up with a completely false and invented reason why we couldn't do it. Now, after the politics have changed, we're still stuck with the completely false and invented reason.

Anonymous said...

My impression of the reason Pinehurst was not "offered" the Decatur building is that it is simply not going to be available soon enough - will be full of 400+ kids next year and maybe the next too? (Not sure when the new building is supposed to open.

However, I wouldn't be surprise to see it become another neighborhood school given the situation.

Chris S.

Ragweed said...

Charlie's correct - the district came up with a BS reason why Pinehurst could not go to Decatur, namely that it was needed as an emergency site and it would cost money to keep it open.

However, the demographics really don't work for Pinehurst. We are a very diverse school with >50% FRL. If the district followed current transportation policy, we would be largely restricted to students from the Eckstein service area, which, with the exception of Sand point, has some of the least diverse schools in the district. From a Native-school perspective it would be even worse - there are 14 OSPI identified non-Hispanic Native students at Eckstein and the 2014 Eckstein feeder schools, and presumably a portion of the students at Eckstein will be in Jane Addams.

Plus, with Thornton Creek right next door expected to grow to 650 with their new building, that would mean 800+ spots for pedagogical alternative schools in one corner of the North end. It would leave the Wilson-Pacific without an alternative school, and JAMS service area with only the ESTEM which has repeatedly said they use a traditional curriculum with an ESTEM focus, but are not really an alternative school.

Ragweed said...

I am glad to see the sudden concern for the Native community and support for a Native heritage program. I hope that this is sincere support and not just a way of getting them out of WilPac.

If this is a real concern to people, may I urge you all to write to Jose Banda and the board to ask them to support a revitalization of the Indian Heritage High School. A couple of weeks ago UNEA organized a meeting with Jose Banda and were told there was no plan to revive and revitalize high-school program. The board needs to hear this is not acceptable.

Anonymous said...

Head start at daybreak was closed several years ago. The facility is beautiful and struggling to remain open. Would be wonderful to see a school housed in the space.

Mag mom

Anonymous said...

So unless eligibility criteria is tightened, it looks like all of North APP won't fit in WP Elem, right? Why couldn't half of APP go to the Decatur building, and Pinehurst K-8 co-house with the WP elementary, leaving the middle school at a capacity of 1000?

It's not that I want another APP split. I guess I'm just wondering why the K-8 couldn't be in the elementary building if the APP numbers necessitate a split. They are going to be housed together at Lincoln until WP is ready anyway.

I'm sure there is a good reason why this was already rejected last November. I just can't remember it.

APP Parent

Anonymous said...

Those who say why does CCA keep harping on the Indian Heritage program, consider this:

"There aren't that many of them
They could go somewhere (anywhere) else.
They probably don't exist anyway, there's no one in their program.
It's probably not even their sacred land, why, they could be Hopi or Sioux or Martians!
We need it more than THEM!
We have as much RIGHTS for it as them
We need to advocate for our children. It is our DUTY!
THIS IS OURS and we have and political connections
It is our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS! We deserve to have it.

We all took history, anything sounds familiar? Colonial America's Westward Expansion? 1930's Germany? 1290's Britain (Edict of Eviction)? 1492's Spain (Alhambra Decree)? 1930's America (Indian Removal Act of 1930, Trail of Tears)? Does this frighten anyone? ANYONE? No? It scares the heck out of me!

Humans have infinite ability to justify the actions we take to get what we want. With our planet warming at breakneck pace, what is going to happen when water and food become more scarce than the most valuable, the rarest minerals? I read recently that global population is going to be 9 billion people in the not too far future. All the big rivers are drying up: Mekong, Nile, Danube, Amazon, COLORADO! Artic Ice going, going, gon.... Ditto Antarctica & Greenland. How long before the Snake and Columbia Rivers stop flowing? What will happen then?

If compassion, fairness, justice, decency, morals, and ethics can be molded and twisted so that the most powerful people get first claims to scarce resources, whether it be food, water, land, or in our case, Licton Springs:

"First they come for the ( Native Americans, AGAIN! Then they came for...".

I am assuming that most posters here are not 1%ers, probably not even top 20%ers. When will they come for you and your children? If the Kochs and Bezos (and that scary Facebook founder TOOL who destroyed a thousands-years-old Old-growth Redwood Grove to put on his stupid Games of Thrones wedding! vile POS!) build a domed colony on Mars a la Logan's Run, after they destroy the Earth, will there be room in it for your children and grand children? Do you have enough money and power to get seats on the transport spaceship?

To those who think I'm just being hyperbolic, Go look at a picture of the Colorado River which provides most of the water to 6 different states. See where the level is now compared to the normal water mark? See how sediment layers not seen for millions of years now exposed? Go look at California's cracked earth and wildfires in CA, NV, all over the W and Midwest. Think! How long before YOU are the people who NEED TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!


Jamie said...

CCA - I am standing and applauding you.

Carol Simmons said...

CCA and Ragweed

Thank you.


Lynn said...


If you would assume other commenters enter these discussions with the best of intentions, it's possible we could come to some agreement.

The district can place a program on the Wilson site that has a Native American name and uses a curriculum that supports and will be effective for Native students. What they aren't doing is providing an enrollment preference for Native students, providing transportation services for Native students who don't live in the Wilson Pacific attendance area, or creating a hiring preference for Native teachers and staff. We do not assign children to schools based on their race. That is why this program doesn't make sense to me.

Pointing out that most struggling Native students aren't likely to receive any benefit from this effort doesn't make me a racist. Pointing out that there isn't a Native Heritage School community that will be moved to the Wilson site when the building opens doesn't make me a racist. From a pragmatic viewpoint, this plan makes no sense.

Putting two schools on the Wilson site - a comprehensive high school and a separate option K-8 school makes more sense to me. Asking Native families in the Southeast and West Seattle how their local schools could meet their needs makes more sense to me. Assuming they'll transport their children to North Seattle every day so we don't have to meet their needs closer to home seems kind of inequitable to me.

Simple HTML for formatting blogger comments

Lynn said...


I'm so glad to see you here. Can you help me to understand how this school will benefit the native community? Is there a plan to transport students from other areas? Given the size limitation of the current plan, will you advocate for recreating the program in every region?

Anonymous said...

Will APP under current admission rules fit at WP? No. Either elementary gets split again or the program admission rules change. One would assume that program and facilities would meet to hash this out, but that's probably a false assumption given the past decade not to mention the current disaster that is WP planning.

I have no hope of this turning out well. The best that potentially affected parents in the APP community can do is to not get attached to the program as currently operating nor the placement at WP as currently agreed.

Agreed that any Native American program should have first, not last, crack at the WP campus. And that Robert Eaglestaff's name should appear on a building from the minute one is completed.


Anonymous said...

CCA, I don't think anybody thinks you are harping on the native heritage program. What I do think you are doing is falling into the district's us vs them thinking trap. It doesn't have to be anybody vs anybody, unless you mean families vs the district. The district likes to get two communities to find "hills they will die on," where nothing else will do but X, and only one community can have X. Then they let the two communities fight it out in the court of public opinion so that only one of them gets it, and the other community is a bad guy who will get nothing, nothing I tell you, maybe even lose something for good measure. then they don't have to provide reasonable resources for both communities by coming up with fully supported plans for both, including following through on mitigation funds and ideas (app is waiting for the mitigation solemnly promised in the last split, much less the curriculum they promised last fall for this one. Don't hold your breath). There are alternatives besides overcrowding a new,mpoorly designed middle school in a way that harms both schools, just so one community can win and the other lose. Looking at day break star doesn't have to be "losing" for anyone. A lot of the area around w-p is pretty troubled, which is not ideal for already at risk youth. Daybreak star avoids that problem, if transportation can be helped.

Similarly splitting app to Decatur in 2017 might not be losing (though the Decatur building will be too small. It is only a 150 seat building- that it is currently housing 400 students is malfeasance on the part of the district, loving a popular program to death), though that might be too late for an alternate as-1 plan. Maybe half of app could go to Cedar Park, which as the boundaries are currently drawn is going to be a very, very poor school. It might be better to even up the schools around instead. I would favor tightening entrance criteria, but I do not think that is the way the district is headed.

I think, and Kellie can correct me if I'm wrong, that last November the district was still using growth projections from 2012. Using those projections app elementary would not have grown fast enough to outgrow Wilson pacific. Since then 1) the district has updated their projections, and the whole thing has grown and will grow by 2017 faster than expected, so of course advanced learning will grow faster too and 2) other advanced learning programs have been dismantled, pushing more kids to app.


Anonymous said...

CCA & others: If you could look past your "white shaming" you would see that the district is following it's old pattern of playing groups against each other. While groups throw each other under the bus and turn each other into cannon fodder, the district focuses on butts in seats and equates size with quality, demand, and popularity, ignoring its own lack of support and direct attacks on programs that weaken them, fill them with uncertainty, and force them to save themselves in a panic. Anybody displaced from TT Minor, Cooper, Summit or Lowell knows what I'm talking about. Same stuff, different day.

"First in time is first in right" is official British common law, by the way. Ironic.


Anonymous said...

@sleeper: You beat me to it!


Anonymous said...

Edict of Expulsion.

CCA getting old :-(

mirmac1 said...

CCA has been responding to the "us vs them" mentality that launched this topic. Thank you Ragweed for bringing up that meeting with UNEA. Banda seems to think the district's done all they have to for these students. He must think they don't really exist either.

Anonymous said...

Because some one said, "hey I looked at the plan for the k-8, and it looks shoddy; why are we going with this; are there other options"? With, yes, NO room for growth- ie actual native heritage program students. I don't think it's cool to build a school with no library, no pcp space, no PE space. I stand behind thinking daybreak star is reasonable to mention in conversation. It definitely has advantages for the native heritage program over the a-p site. Maybe there is room for common ground with a high school campus and a separate k-8 at the w-p site. The district isn't currently listening to people with children in app, but right now they listen to Pinehurst; maybe they could have luck pressing that plan. The more I see how cohousing goes down, especially in crowded districts, the more suspicious I am of it as a plan. All roads lead to alternative programs getting booted out. Let's say as-1 gets the w-p site as the plan currently stands- I will bet you a donut they are gone by 2020.

The only true us vs them I have seen is at neighborhood community meetings. There it is definitely residents vs public school children of Seattle. Shameful.


Anonymous said...

What's going on with the neighbors v SPS on WP planning? Could neighbors actually stop the plan as designed, or is it a matter of neighborhood mitigation and the design will move forward?

I don't understand how much the public comment can impact a development. But if there is a risk the whole project could be slowed or redesigned, that's something I'd like to know! It will be time for Plan B at our house.

North of 85th

Anonymous said...

They certainly can. The district has to ask for variances on several zoning ordinances, and the community can advocate against it. This happened with the Pinehurst site a few weeks ago though I think it resolved in the school's favor. They can ask for further environmental study, further traffic study, any number of "further studies" to delay the project for at least a year. I would not be surprised to see that, since at least a significant portion of the neighborhood wants no interruption in field space time at all- not even one academic year (9 months). That is the tactic the Wedgwood neighbors used (and I saw the people at those meetings- it was overwhelmingly people who use that field as a dog park, as well as catholic sports association representatives).

I threw away the w-p lawsuit materials, so I am not sure what the basis was for claiming more than one building is illegal. I don't know how much traction any of these will get, but it is certainly possible for public comment to delay and change school plans. There is certainly not as vocal of a "pro" community around the w-p school as there was for the Decatur site (since the neighboring elementaries need more overcrowding relief and didn't want more building on their sites, they were all willing to come speak.). I think that could change if the stakeholders were well identified, but they are not.


Carol Simmons said...

Hi Lynne,
I am not objecting to anyone considering other sites for the Indian Heritage school. I did that also and learned a great deal from the Native Community by attending meetings and speaking and learning from the Native community. The Wilson Pacific site is where the Indian Heritage School was successfully housed. The District let the program fail. The Indian Heritage School had a strong, authentic Native American Focus and successfully educated Native and non Native students. The curriculum was culturally relevant and the school achieved the highest graduation rate for native students in our district's history. Because the District allowed this school and program to fail the students were scattered throughout the district,many whom were mis identified and placed in special education programs. The District needs to "revitalize" the Indian Heritage school (as promised) with adequate resources (including transportation) and return it to the sacred site of Licton Springs with the buildings named after Principal Robert Eaglestaff. This is what the Native community is requesting and this is what the Native community deserves.

Anonymous said...

White shaming, is that like Men's Rights' feminazi? Or is it more like KKK's race-traitor?

Yeah, I don't feel any guilt at all about African American Slavery or Native American and First Nation Genocides. My ancestors were not in America then, they robbed plundered and massacred totally different peoples in Asia and Africa. But even if we were talking about Asian and African former colonies, it would still not be out of guilt or shame since I did not rob plunder massacre oppress anyone. I have enough of my own actions to deal with, no need to take on other people's.
I have stated the reasons for my position already, if you overlooked them then read my earlier posts. Wrong put down tho, try treehugger, or global warming fanatic.

Some of you just totes proved the situational ethics' "infinite ability to justify anything to get what you want" thing. The manipulative "white-guilt", "white-shaming" accusations to put me in the defensive are really good too. And the distractions with other unrelated issues. Look, squirrel! The placing of "the REAL blame" on someone else is very eloquently done; OBAMA, I mean SPS did it! After all, these methods have been wildly successful for the GOP against minorities, muslims, immigrants, women and their non-minority, non-female supporters. BENGHAZI! 9/11! Jobs! Fascists Communists Muslims Socialists! OBAMACARE! 47%! And we are all better as a country thanks to these tactics, yes?

Did y'all see the facebook pages calling Eliot Rodger a hero? Cool, yes?

SPS is not dividing and conquering. YOU are! Us vs Them. The Good of the Many Outweighs the good of the FEW? How about original Star Trek's episode "The Conscience of the King"? Kodos the Executioner did the right thing in killing more than half of Tarsus IV's population so the remaining- chosen by eugenics-members of the settlement can have enough food until the supply ship's arrival then? Better pray your children have great genes (as determined by the people with the most arsenal of weapons and money, of couse).

Lynn, why not advocate for a better program that does make sense to you AT Licton Springs for AS1-Indian Heritage then? That is where they want to be. It is their sacred land. Ask them what they need to make their school AT LICTON SPRINGS great and fabulous. Just a thought.

Did you all know that they have been holding pow wows at Licton Springs for many years? Should the pow wows be sent to Daybreak Star too?

Look, what about we advocate (AND vote for funds) to build an environmentally sustainable structure with as many stories as needed for everyone. You know, my original suggestion. If the building is large enough the diiferent schools can have totally their own corners or floors with separate everything, for those people who do not want to comingle with AS1-Indian Heritage.

I have said everything I have to say. Got to go continue summarizing chapters from that absolutely moronic Algebra book that SPS forced on our poor kids. My chicklet's reviewing for EOC. Who wrote that bloody book? Is English not their first (or second, or third...) lingo?

I'm outa like the wind. Enjoy the lovely weather. Yesterday we saw a family of geese, mom dad 5 extremely downy goslings at Lk Union. Abs AWSOME!


Anonymous said...

Thank you mirmac1, ragweed, jamie, carol, app paren @8:42. You make the sun come out from under lots of clouds & give me hope. Enjoy your Sun. ;-)


Ragweed said...

Thanks CCA, but it might be productive to turn it down a notch.

I have to agree with Carol. I have been to many meetings with UNEA and other members of the Native community and they have all called for the school to be at the Wilson Pacific site. Not once, even during a meeting at Daybreak Star, have I heard anyone in the Native community advocate for a school at DBS.

Let me try to offer some clarification and responses to some of what has been posted above:

The Pinehurst/Native Heritage proposal was not something that Pinehurst cooked up out of thin air. The partnership came about as a collaboration with UNEA because of the similarities of our curriculum to the school they were proposing (experiential, collaborative, community based, large emphasis on family involvement, etc.). UNEA has been part of the proposal from the outset and the UNEA Chair and Co-Chair were part of the authoring committee that wrote the proposal for the board. To make a long story short, Pinehurst was willing to help create a Native Centered program that SPS was not willing to create. We jointly proposed Native Heritage AS1 as a K-8 with a linked pathway to a high-school program. Thus far the HS program has not gotten much traction.

UNEA remains our lead community partner in the new focus and we have been collaborating with them to develop the curriculum, insure authenticity, and guide the process. They are also working with us on writing grants for supplemental curriculum support, and, we hope, language instruction in the Lushootseed language (the eventual goal is to have a language immersion similar to the International schools, but that may be many years down the line). Both the UNEA, the Seattle Intertribal Coalition, and the BLT of Pinehurst have called for a binding MOA to insure authentic Native oversight of the program, but thus far that has been rejected by Ron English and Michael Tolley.

The intention of the partnership is to create a program that will serve the cultural needs of Native students. We are exploring transportation solutions so that Native families throughout at least the North end, if not the city as a whole, will be able to attend – there may be some grant money out there to fund transportation for Native students. There is another effort to create some sort of Native school in West Seattle, though I believe that might be centered on a charter.

Native students are largely clustered in the North end and West Seattle. The Denny MS Service area has the greatest number of OSPI-identified Native Students, followed by Madison, Whitman, and the future Wilson Pacific K-5s and K-8s. If half of the Native students at Whitman Middle School are part of the future WilPac service area, then Wilson Pacific MS service area would be the second largest Native population next to Denny. In the North end, Whitman, WilPac and Jane Addams MS service areas have the largest Native Populations.

Anonymous said...

Was that seriously all directed at me? CCA, the people who disagree with you have been incredibly civil to you despite your abusive tone. I am interested in the Wilson pacific project, and would like to discuss it with fellow activists without someone jumping up and yelling Nazi every time a potential disagreement comes up. I have no ability or interest to censor, you obviously, but please speak to me more respectfully. I have my liberal bona fides, but even if I didn't.

This is not an example of situational ethics. What it might be is an example of optics winning out over real solutions, like when the district wanted to close at least as many schools in the north as in the south to be "fair," despite the different growth rates. Which all detracted from anyone being able to argue effectively that we shouldn't close any schools at all. Because that's "distracting." I was a newbie to sps politics then, but I remember it well. Same song new verse.


mirmac1 said...

CCA's alright. Thank you for posting your thoughts, even the kinda crazy ones : ) Made my day! I have to pet my kitties to Keep Clam.

Ragweed, thanks for filling in the blanks. Very interesting!

As for Tolley and English (natch) rejecting an MOA, well that should be up to the board. Is there a university program that could partner as well?

Jamie said...

CCA - you are totally making my day as well. Carry on please.

Melissa Westbrook said...

CCA, you need to dial it back. We don't allow name-calling here and you are coming dangerously close to that and I will delete any comment of that nature.

Anonymous said...

Ragweed - If you can't go through Tolley and English, go around them. Get Seattle Council PTSA to take on the cause. Get a city council person involved. Get the media involved. In the face of public campaigning and exposure of failing to do the right thing for the community at the core of Seattle, they will eventually fold like - well -- like two cheap suits.

Your efforts are worthy. Don't ever let the AS1/Native American community give up!

Been There.

Joe Wolf said...

Reply to APP Parent:

Context: "All North APP at Wilson-Pacific"

To clarify: At their 11.20.13 the Board approved the following actions:

- Growth Boundaries for all existing schools plus all schools approved and funded via BEX IV.


Attachment A (Boundary Maps):

The Board also approved future APP elementary and middle school sites/geographic assignments, via my 11.20.13 BAR.

BAR link:

See table, page 3 *and amended as follows*: An amendment submitted by Directors Martin-Morris and DeBell and approved by the Board changed the APP assignmenr for the JAMS/Eckstein area from Eckstein to JAMS, and the APP assignment for the Whitman/Wilson-Pacific area from Whitman to Wilson-Pacific.

Middle School APP recommendations approved by the Board:

- Assign JAMS and Eckstein
APP 6, 7,& 8 to JAMS in

- Assign APP from Whitman, &
WilPac to Wil-Pac in 2016-17 (qualified with "if enrollmenr pressure forces a 2016-17 opening of Wll-Pac MS at the J. Marshall interim site"). Staff's current intent is to open the Wil-Pac campus in Fall 2017 ... both attendance are and APP assignment.

Lynn said...


I think APP Parent was asking whether all of the north end elementary APP students will fit at Wilson-Pacific. Your BAR didn't create new elementary sites - did it?

robyn said...

Since SPS isn't listening to FACMAC and building a much-needed high school at WilPac site, I think the best idea I've heard yet was mentioned above - an idea that will actually allow for Licton Springs K-8 to step foot on the WilPac site.

Split elementary APP in September 2017 and co-house the Licton Springs K-8 in the elementary school.

That allows for lots of growth room for the K-8, incredible learning opportunities between elementary APP and the K-8, more reasonably co-housed programs, better sharing of library and PCP spaces, etc. It also gives the WilPac AA a viable option school.

This is the direction SPS needs to head. The cute, boutique MS they insist on building should not be redesigned to incorporate a program that will not fit day 1. If anyone has seen 2014-2015 enrollment, we are ahead of the 2018 enrollment projections. I have nothing but love for the Licton Springs K-8, but the reality is the neighborhood kids will get the seats come 2017. Then, we will have just wasted $1M to redesign the MS AND Licton Spring K-8 will be up for closure again.

I am not a fan of lose-lose situations.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Robyn, how does that allow them to be a K-8? Are you saying put the K-5 in the elementary and the 6-8 in the middle school? That seems confusing. And, that's not how they are building it. It sure would be a waste of BEX IV dollars to create K-5 space in the middle school.

Anonymous said...


I did not call anyone names. I'm assuming you are talking about the feminazi term, yes? Read the paragraph again. I asked about the term white-shaming. What did the person who accused me of white-shaming mean by it? Men Rights activists call every woman who try to call attention to the problem of how women are regarded and treated unequitably, Feminazis - a derogatory dismissive term meaning crazy feminist. And many many people who have tried to speak up for non white people have been called race-traitors.

I was asking what the poster who accused me of white-shaming was saying I was doing? Is he/she saying I'm only concerned with Native Americans because I feel guilty about my ancestors' genocidal deeds? Or is he/she using that term to say my concerns have no validity and should be dismissed, like the men and women who ridicule and dismiss feminists by calling them feminazis? Or is he/she saying I'm betraying the white race by pointing out the problems with trying to remove AS1-Indian Heritage from Licton Springs. Who is white? Who should be ashamed? And who is shaming?

And why does the poster who accused me of white-shaming think I was calling him/her a Nazi? Where did I say Nazi? I wrote feminazi, and the term was not directed at anyone by me. How is that term interpreted as an insult to the poster with the white shaming accusation? Is the poster female and a feminist? If yes, how did I know these facts about the poster? Do you think I'm a mens rights troll? We are not talking about #yesallwomen, why would the poster and you, Melissa, think I was calling him/her a overwrought female feminist who should be ignored?

Clearly you, Melissa, do not agree with my opinions and thus was ready to apply the worst interpretation to my words. You have the right to delete my words, but please do not put your words in my mouth.

This is your blog, and you can delete whatever you want. It really doesn't matter much to me, not like I'm imparting golden wisdom here on an education blog. But I do wonder why it is okay to say I'm white-shaming, whatever the poster meant by that (It sounds like an insult to me, questioning my motives And the legitimacy of my concerns). And Melissa, why do you think saying I was white- shaming is respectful dialog, and why you would instantly misread the term feminazy as Nazi, and furthermore, think that I was directing it at the poster who said I was white-shaming?

I am not the one name calling and dissing people here. I have no need to gratuitously insult people on the interweb. I don't know any of you. If you choose to see words that I never wrote, that is out of my control. I do not have a problem with saying what I mean. We are posting on the web, most of us anonymously, there is little consequence to saying whatever we want. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. There is no shadow meanings, no subtitles.


Anonymous said...

You are conflating me and someone else. I didn't use the term white shaming, but I did tell you your words were disrespectful, and I used the term "calling Nazi." You were calling people who disagreed with you complicit in genocide, if not genocidal maniacs themselves. It's an internet meme- "crying Hitler" or "calling out the Nazis" to stop your debate opponent online from being able to speak.'s_law

I think accusing people who do not agree with your exact plan for capacity management for Seattle Public Schools in 2014 bigoted eugenicists at best and genocidal maniacs at worst qualifies as Godwin's law.

Another tactic the GOP uses is insulting their opponents often with untruths, or better, half truths (like misrepresenting the app community reaction to cohousing with medically fragile students this year), knowing that even if it is easily refutable, if they say it often enough some people will believe it.

The real blame always rests with the people with the power. In this district, that is not parents.


kellie said...

The capacity issue isn't as complex as it seems in this thread.

We do not have enough elementary capacity, before, during or after BEX. Count it however you like but the bulk of growth is still in elementary school.

We *might* have enough middle school capacity if Wilson Pacific was not required to share and was being built more flexibly, but that is not happening so we going to be out of middle school capacity as soon as WP comes online.

We have enough high school capacity for the 2014 school year and after that it is anyone's guess as to when we run out.

The reason why Wilson Pacific is such an issue is because right now while WP is an "on paper" building, it can be imagined to solve all of the problems but it can't do that in real life.

It is the inserting of all of this reality into the theory that is making this an impossible problem. The planning for BTA will be starting soon and I would fully expect to see some significant capacity management components into this levy. The last BTA included the funds to re-open 5 elementary schools. I expect that precedent to be significantly expanded.

Anonymous said...


Thank you for the info. I'm very glad for your program and I wish you a lot of success.

You are right, I was being too sarcastic. And I apologize greatly if my posts should make things worse for your program in anyway. I've been reading this blog for a while now. It is great for information on SPS, and Melissa and Charlie sometimes post really cool stuff about anime and other very interesting things. But it is also a bit like Chinese water torture sometimes. When some people don't get things exactly as they want for their kids, then they start advocating for moving other communities around. Over and over and over! Drip drip drip on the forehead. Month after month after month. It never ends. No room for AS1Pinehurst at Lincoln, don't send your kids here AS1 parents, don't come new APP kids. No room for AS1Pinehurst at WP, Heritage should go to DBS, Native kids should be served at their neighborhood school, AS1should go to Decatur. Last fall there were all sorts of contortions suggested to keep all APP kids at HIMS: move LI, move GenEd, move Medically Fragile, send WW to Eckstein, send JSIS and McDonald somewhere else. Then when APP got split it was because JSK8 manipulated the Board. Few weeks ago I read Pinehurst manipulated Downtown Staff into placing extra Sped classes at their school next year, why I can't remember; today I read Pinehurst tricked IH and the board into joining their two programs. And JAK8 got a PLAYGROUND! AS1 and JAK8 must be descendants of Machiavelli! And the Board, Staff and IH super gullible.

Sorry, sarcastic again. I really try not to engage, it does no good whatsoever to say anything, but sometimes it just gets to me. And we are an APP family! Can't imagine how JAK8 and AS1-IH must feel when they read all this. Thank God for summer vac.


Melissa Westbrook said...

CCA, you seem very agitated and again, I ask that you dial it back. I didn't make any assumptions about you or anyone else.

Also to say Pinehurst "manipulated" or "tricked" anyone without proof is not right. What's your proof?

Ditto on the summer vacation (except that some of us don't get to walk away as easily as others).

Anonymous said...

The plan you are talking about from last fall to keep middle school app from being split was come up with and endorsed by JA k-8. It was also endorsed by anyone who has ever looked closely at capacity- basically don't change everything yet, change what needs to be changed right now right now. I helped write the petition and get the message out. Sps is moving medically fragile kids now, into Lincoln and out of their high school programs, but they are not in the space that would have been the Hamilton annex for this fall. That never happened.

JA k-8 got a new play structure in addition to the play structure and playspace already there(which was too small, but so is Lincoln's currently) Lincoln does need more play space, with 900 kids, and a longer tenancy. The district is falling down on that, and it probably does have to do with app being unpopular. That is politics, and I wish the district was run more like a bureaucracy than a series of fiefdoms, but there you go. JAMS should also not have to pay for its elevator (wtf luxury to be ada compliant as a middle school? Really?) out of bex funds, but new comprehensives also have a harder time dealing with the district. Politics again.

I have never begrudged JA k-8 for asking what they ask for. They are advocating for their students. I would hope we could all do the same; communities know what they need and need to be able to communicate that. what I begrudge is that no one else appears to be able to ask for the same things and get them, because of politics, not a real and fair apportionment of resources. The later start times is the most appalling example of that- I really believe the start and end times suggested by Peaslee were going to kill children in the south. I'm still very worried about it. In a fair world the kids down south without street lights and with gang handouts to navigate around are the first ones we would have concerned ourselves with, and then the bulk of elementary students safety, the middle school biology(needs to be later-times would be swapped for next year), then option/k-8 schools around all that, with the poorest considered first(not happening). Instead one option school doesn't want its elementary bell time changed by 20 minutes, so....

I don't mind them asking (sure, why not?) but they never should have gotten it.


mirmac1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mirmac1 said...

First, with all due respect Melissa, I think any name-calling began with the assertion by someone that CCA was "white-shaming". Forget the important facts CCA presented; it still felt "uncomfortable." Up until that time CCA did not call out any individual as wrong, and in fact warned how similar arguments could be used to impact students and populations once considered safe.

I see CCA' gentle use of sarcasm, with the harshest in fact directed inward ("treehugger"!)

As to sleeper's assertion that CCA was the one trying to shut people down, it's clear that the sensitive readers thought CCA might have "taken a tone" and needed to dial back. Well, I think gentle (yet frustrated) "tone" is necessary in this forum. I agree with CCA's positions and I don't generally moderate my tone with administrators and decisionmakers.

I have evidence that the district plans, in three years, to move Pinehurst and orphan SpEd programs to various locales, guaranteed gened assignment, (insert excuse here) etc. I call BS on that crap.

Anonymous said...

White-shaming is real, prejudiced and counter-productive. And it flows freely on this blog, almost daily. If those who engage in it, whether self-shaming or shaming others, to their own detriment, insist on doing it, feel free. Just don't complain about "Seattle Nice" ever again, because the cause is self-evident and self-inflicted.

In a world measured by micro-aggressions, nobody gets a free pass.

Carry on. WSDWG

Anonymous said...

@Mirmac1: Now I get what you're saying. But no, it didn't feel "uncomfortable." To be more accurate it felt gratuitous and pointless. To answer CCA's question if I'm dismissing his or her points: Well, to be honest, I'm not going to weed through bramble bushes, when others provide me a walkable path. Who would?

We probably won't see eye-to-eye on this one, but I greatly appreciate all you bring to these discussions, especially good humor, nonetheless, and I'd hope the feeling is mutual.

And having said that, there's a new Math post several topics above this one, and I'm going to jump to it now, hoping others will follow.

Folks: Love me or hate me (I've still got my dog), but math touches every single child in the district, no exceptions, so don't waste the opportunity to weigh in on it. WSDWG

Anonymous said...

You've got it backwards Melissa,

Again, please don't put other people's words into my mouth.

As you seem to agree with me that accusing Pinehurst of manipulating staff (to have Sped placed at their school), and of manipulating Indian Heritage somehow (to get joined program) is inappropriate and possibly libelous, I do wish you had called them out when they did it. Some people make all sorts of anonymous accusations of malfeasance against various people-board members, teachers , school communities- on this blog without any providing any proof. It is , at the very least, inappropriate.


Anonymous said...

CCA, hang in there! I get where you are coming from. You can bash charter, ed reformers, the district, board members, Africatown, principals and teachers by name, but certain things you simply can't. It isn't tone or velvet glove for you. You make people uncomfortable and you hold a minority view. When people began proposing Daybreak as an alt site, I had to chuckle and then winced. Thank you for those who stayed to explain about NA program and its tortuous history. What may seems an obvious and practical solution may not be to those most affected by it. Rather similar to many comments expressed here when it's about APP.

I found this blog in 2007 over school closures and over the years have sent friends over here for info. But for friends whose children aren't in APP, live in CD or New Holly, they don't always find the connection here which is fine. It's a great site for APP, north end stuff, math, and anti-reform news. So thanks for that.


Anonymous said...

Saying I have an infinite ability to justify anything I want, must like Elliot Rodgers, and should pray my kids have good genes because I'm as bad as sci if eugenicists is not the same as people saying the way something went down is shady.

I'm not sure how your accusations against the app community upthread, or the pages of anti Michael DeBell commentary last year, are any different in tone and lack of proof (especially since I was there and know they aren't true) than an incorrect accusation of Pinehurst manipulating staff(I wasn't part of that, but it's similar). Both are trying to imbue intent into otherwise neutral facts, based on bias.That's politics, and people getting their story out there. Where yours is factually erroneous I was trying to correct it (like that your bad guy plan originated with JA k-8, not app), but none of that is libelous or name calling. I'm not asking you to dial that back, but it is just the same as what you are accusing others of. It's the other stuff I was talking about that I think gets in the way.

I think app parents who stay on here are definitionally not "sensitive." How could you be, and still post?

I should go to the math thread too. I have gotten into one of these meta conversations on here before, and I know they are not extremely useful. Excited about the possibility of just Math in Focus!


Melissa Westbrook said...

CCA, I tend to call out everyone on making statements without backing them up. Ask anyone.

You said this:

"As you seem to agree with me that accusing Pinehurst of manipulating staff (to have Sped placed at their school), and of manipulating Indian Heritage somehow (to get joined program) is inappropriate and possibly libelous, I do wish you had called them out when they did it."

As I seem to agree with you ...that saying this things about Pinehurst is inappropriate. Yes, I do think it's inappropriate. (I said nothing about libel.) I didn't "call them out" because I had no proof it was true.

I have no problem with an active discourse but this argument is baffling to me.

Anonymous said...

Why does it keep cycling? Take the latest rediscovered buzz word, microaggression. It is an act that has been used to describe those frequent verbal and nonverbal acts of small and subtle slights and insults that people experienced negatively because of their race/ethnicity/SES/sex. Often these acts aren't deliberate and are seen by some as harmless, trivial, or simply done because people are curious or unaware. As said by WSDWG, "in a world measured by micro-aggressions, nobody gets a free pass". YET, somehow, there are certain groups who bear the brunt of it when it comes to economic disparity, life expectancy & other health measurements, educational attainment as in HS graduation rate, drop out/suspension rate, unemployment rate (even with a college education) incarceration rate, pay scale (women), etc....

But yeah, do carry on. Math it is.


Melissa Westbrook said...

I can only say that I have repeatedly tried to talk about the issues around race in this district (and had a whole thread about an article on microaggressions) and got no real feedback/discussion.

It's fine to discuss this topic on this thread but not in a hostile or accusatory fashion (it tends to limit the discussion).

robyn said...

Hi Melissa,

I meant if elementary APP is split in 2017 when WilPac opens, the entire K-8 program could be co-housed (with room to grow) in the elementary building. I didn't mean to suggest splitting the K-8 between two buildings. I have no idea, but it seems like a cheaper and more viable option. The 6-8 graders could go over to the middle school for library books, but mainly stay in the other building allowing for easier scheduling. Then, the MS design isn't compromised. Redesigning the elementary building to include the K-8 would make more sense when thinking about future building flexibility. They already included a K room when APP doesn't have K so that's good. What else is needed? A science lab? APP 4th & 5th graders could benefit from that, too.

I think it was APP Parent above who suggested this, but it's hard to find now with all the posts.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Thanks, Robyn. I think that actually would be more flexible. Hmm.

Anonymous said...

Yes, Robyn, that's exactly what I meant. Thank you.

Surely this idea was already considered and rejected last year, but why?

APP Parent

Anonymous said...

@APP parent and Robyn-

Where would you put the other 1/2 of north elementary APP?

- North-end Mom

Robyn said...

North-end, mom, I don't know, but APP elementary WILL be split since it won't fit at WilPac. It could be some weird split like Ballard/QA/Mag/phinney and send them to the vacant school on Magnolia since they get transportation. Then, you still relieve NE by sending the far NW, north central and NE to WilPac. There's the Decatur building and maybe something in NNE Seattle.

APP parent, it may have been rejected since APP parents spent all their energy insisting APP elementary not be split under any circumstances. So, we are getting a 3-way middle school split due to that insistence, and, elementary will be split after all due to the huge numbers.

That's a huge bummer. I would rather have seen a few elementary locations move together in middle school for a strong program than ripping elementary kids from friends come 6th grade.

Robyn said...

That's my soapbox, and hindsight is 20/20', isn't it? :)

Joe Wolf said...

Robyn - Like North-End Mom, I'm also curious about that detail of your recommendation.

If you'll recall, the first staff recommendation for north end elementary APP placed it - co-housed with "assignment area" neighborhood kids - in two schools, Wilson-Pacific Elementary and Olympic Hills Elementary (after its new 660-seat building was finished).

And then, a couple of things happened.

- The community reminded District leadership of the Superintendent's promise to keep the SNAPP community together, and place it at Wilson-Pacific Elementary when it was ready for occupancy Fall 2017;

- The Board was not too thrilled with the attendance boundary that resulted for Wilson-Pacific Elementary. It isn't a "traditional" residential neighborhood, especially in the elementary context.

Speaking (a) for myself, and (b) in the context of managing the enrollment/capacity challenges for SNAPP, I want to concentrate on making the Wilson-Pacific Elementary campus work.

David said...

Wait, are they really thinking there will be room for attendance area gen ed elementary kids at Wilson Pacific? Everything I hear says it will be over capacity with APP kids.

robyn said...


I think the difference now is the sheer number of kids headed to Lincoln for APP next year. Even with portables, north-end APP could be too big for WilPac elementary come 2017. Obviously, I have no idea if that'll be the case, but even if it stays at 700 kids, it's a huge school. Maybe that's OK, but it's a problem if it grows much since the elementary school only has room for 4 portables. That puts max enrollment around 750(+/-). Right?

Responding to the points you brought up related to an attendance area for WilPac elementary school, it wouldn't be a problem since the other "half" of the building would go to the K-8 option school: Licton Springs K-8. My understanding is you can't limit APP enrollment, but you can limit an option school's enrollment. So, there wouldn't be a problem managing WilPac elementary building's capacity.

I THINK the APP community was concerned about being co-housed with an attendance area school since those kids get the seats and APP is a movable program. They knew they'd get shoved out again if co-housed with an attendance area school. That exact point is why the newly-named Licton Springs K-8 should be concerned about the MS placement. Most people looking at the numbers don't see how they will fit in the MS on day 1. As a concerned taxpayer, I am quite bothered that SPS would spend ~$1M to redesign a school permanently for a program that may never move into the building that was designed for them. I think you said yourself that SPS doesn't design buildings for programs, but for flexible long-term use. The WilPac MS is a complete 180 from that statement.

I THINK the APP community was always on board with being co-housed with an option school for the above reasons, but, again, I could be wrong, and I am not in a position to speak for the community as a whole. Although, I do have a child at Lincoln and one in my neighborhood school so my opinion is worth something (1/700th).

The benefits to APP Parent's idea are:

1. The middle school design isn't compromised and retains the much-needed MS seats. The science labs can be put back on the 1st floor to reduce difficult movement around the "E". No additional playground needs to be built.

2. Licton Springs K-8 has room to grow and can serve as the option school for the WilPac service area.

3. Changes to the elementary school to incorporate the K-8 would be minimal, and the changes would serve the older APP kids well....More advanced books in the library, a science lab, etc.

As far as where the APP kids not at WilPac will go, I don't know. The kids in SPS ALL need to go somewhere. They could go to some of the buildings where folks were trying to send the Licton Springs K-8. Here goes:

Magnolia building
Cedar Park
John Marshall (1/3 of the building)
Daybreak Star :)

Anonymous said...

How many kids are you sending, though, Robin? The reason some of those buildings were suggested for the k-8 is that they would fit about 150 kids, with a little but not a lot of room for growth. If you only take 150 kids out of elementary app, by 2017 I think you'll be left with 650, out of 800 total. You need to take more like 400 out. Where can 400 fit? Maybe half of John Marshall- but isn't that only allowed to be an interim site? How big is Cedar Park? I thought it fit at most 250? Maybe that's the best bet, though.

Fwiw, I always wanted the elementary to be split, and middle school to stay together. I think most of us with middle school experience (app or otherwise) thought so. I am no recalling a plan off the top of my head that didn't have similar flaws to the wilpac one- ie putting us with an attendance area school that would use up all the app seats before we got there. And as the board is firmly against an all app middle school, and wants to keep it under half the school, I think that was a harder sell. But especially as I hear the new principal of JAMS telling app parents "I can't be concerned about that- advanced science/la/SS curriculum/self contained/ etc. I have all these other programs to worry about, so we are just going to have to blend some" I can't help but think that what I am really hearing is that it's too much for a principal to try to run a solid gen ed program and an app one in the same school, and so app should be standalone. I don't necessarily love that, and am not sure it has to be too much for building admin, but it seems like it is.


robyn said...

Sleeper, my APP kid is only in 3rd grade and I am really wondering lately what benefit there is/will be to be in APP in MS.

To the other topic, how many kids does the Magnolia school hold? Isn't it about 300? If QA/Mag/Ballard/Phinney go to Magnolia, everyone else could go to WilPac. Joe Wolfe or someone, Flip maybe, also mentioned the museum(?) in Ballard. I don't know how many kids that holds, but (don't scream) maybe there could be a 3-way elementary split with kids going to WilPac, the Magnolia school and the museum in Ballard.

I'm just throwing out ideas like all the kind folks trying to find the K-8 a home other than WilPac.

To me, having elementary APP stay together when it is split 3-4 ways in middle school is so sad. My kid will lose many of her friends in 6th grade just like many kids in APP did in the 1st elementary split, now this year's middle school splits and the upcoming 2016/2017 splits.

Other than SPED, I can't think of many kids that this happens to...they usually stay with their elementary friends while gaining a whole bunch of new friends in MS. They aren't separated in 6th grade (terrible time in life) from their BFFs.

People arguing to keep APP elementary together should think about that for a bit. It's over two years away and I am sad that my child will lose many very good friends she's made at Lincoln since 1st grade. My other kid at our neighborhood school won't be subjected to that. I regret moving to Lincoln for that reason. Kids are resilient so I hope this is more my problem than it will be hers in 2 years.