Washington State Students Still Tops in SAT Scores
The Times is reporting that for the 8th straight year, Washington state students had the highest SAT scores in the country among the states where more than half the eligible students took the tests. They ranked highest in all categories - critical reading, math and writing - than other states where at least 25% of students tested. (This is important because in general, the more students taking the test, the lower their scores.) I am happy to say that my son and his friends are in these SAT numbers for 2009.
As well, Washington State's participation rate of 54% beats the national rate of 47% AND is the highest among Western states.
The College Board says more than 37,000 Washington students took the SAT test last school year, including nearly 29,000 public school students.
Let's sit back and just feel good about this news. Always more work to be done for sure but this is nice to hear.
As well, Washington State's participation rate of 54% beats the national rate of 47% AND is the highest among Western states.
The College Board says more than 37,000 Washington students took the SAT test last school year, including nearly 29,000 public school students.
Let's sit back and just feel good about this news. Always more work to be done for sure but this is nice to hear.
Comments
JPR\seattle
Washington is a very advantaged state in terms of adult level of education. A lot of that comes from high tech imports from elsewhere.
In fact, I can't think of anything that the SSD administration has done in the past five years that could possibly be said to have any effect on SAT scores whatsoever. But hurray for the kids, and their teachers, and their parents! That is great news.
Compared to most other OECD countries American education results are average or below average....
check out the various comparisons here:
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/25/43636332.pdf
According to this article, in Seattle 1 in 4 students are private school students. Whereas the national ratio is 1 in 10.
http://www.mynorthwest.com/category/news_chick_blog/20100905/Private-vs.-public-school-education/
-Dave Higley
End of Course testing arrives for some high school classes from OSPI next year.
You know the saying, if you don't have anything nice to say....
Sometimes it would be nice to be able to say one good thing and not have people who can't believe there is one good thing TO say.
It's a hard way to go through life.
"But despite the pissing and moaning about math, the kids did fine when and where it counts.
When and where would that be?
What kids are you speaking of?
Have you checked Math Remediation rates at the College level?
You also said:
"Yah yah Dan. Seattle's among the best in the state."
To what Seattle data are you referring?
The NEAP is the other chance. While that is intended to use a representative sample it isn't a large sample like this.
Singing the praises of mediocre (not mediocre kids and teachers, a mediocre education in terms of content, delivery and management) is an act of self delusion, justification, making of excuses and avoidance of responsibility, and encourages people to settle for less - which really robs the kids of their most promising futures...
I sure wouldnt be proud of being at the top of the heap of mediocrity, on an international scale....
The SAT is generally a good indicator of parental income/education level. It would be nice to see that broken down- but let's not look a gift horse in the mouth.
My oldest took the SAT untimed and it was indicated on her score report that she did so. However, SAT no longer identifies the students who are receiving accommodations, and it would be interesting to see if their numbers have increased from 10 years ago.
I also believe the math level in SAT is algebra? SAT lls are used for higher level math.
So I think it is good- but not necessarily an indication of how we are addressing groups who don't take SATs, as many groups of students are attending community college first to save money and also because with two years at CC you don't need SAT scores.
But what do you really think?
Again, that everyone doesn't think like you do doesn't mean you are right. And it doesn't mean that other people are anything like what you posted above. It means that sometimes you look for little victories and push on.
We may not be the best academically in the world but don't forget what this country has created in less than 300 years. We didn't get where we are by being dumb. (And don't go off on all the ills, mega-mistakes, etc. that the U.S. has done. No one in history gets off easily.)
Why is it that Americans think that if you aren't in first place then you're a loser?
There's no reason to believe that our nation should be a leader in education. Our culture is not all that supportive of education and academics. Our popular heroes are athletes, actors, and entreprenuers, not scientists or philosophers. Our society pays more attention to the decisions of Jon and Kate or Brad and Angelina than the decisions of the Supreme Court.
For every winner there are dozens of losers. Odds are you're one of them.
The USNews HS ranking uses AP class enrollment for a proxy measurement of quality of education. I can believe that that number is in some way correlated with some (nonexistent or hard to) measure of how well a HS prepares a kid for college. However it is by no means a perfect proxy. And now we have the problem of HSs signing up every kid for AP just to improve their ranking. Has the underlying quality of the education increased? We don't know.
I feel the same way about the science WASL. I think my kids have had a fabulous science education at their K-8, but the school's (and my kids') science WASL scores actually are not great. To me, that means the science WASL is a bad proxy for what I think is a quality science education.
For my family, the SAT is a better measure of what I want my kids to know than the WASL/HSPE/MAP. It is also possible to use SAT scores to compare WA kids to those in other states. I am happy that WA state kids do well on the SAT. I think that means something. It doesn't mean everything, but it means something. good.
look what its achieved in 300 years?
NZ gave women the vote before any other country in the world, barely 90 years after European settlement began...
Sept 19, 1893:
With the signing of the Electoral Bill by Governor Lord Glasgow, New Zealand becomes the first country in the world to grant national voting rights to women. The bill was the outcome of years of suffragette meetings in towns and cities across the country, with women often traveling considerable distances to hear lectures and speeches, pass resolutions, and sign petitions. New Zealand women first went to the polls in the national elections of November 1893. The United States granted women the right to vote in 1920, and Great Britain guaranteed full voting rights for women in 1928.
NZ had one of the first social welfare systems - free education and free health care, child benefit payments to all families
A New Zealander split the atom - Ernest Rutherford
A New Zealander flew a powered aircraft three months before the Wright brothers - Thomas Pearce
A New Zealander was the first man to stand on the top of Everest - Edmund Hillary
A New Zealander started the first maternal-baby home health visit service - Plunket Society, founded in 1907 in Dunedin by child health visionary, Sir Frederic Truby King. His vision was to help the mothers and save the babies that were dying from malnutrition and disease.
New Zealand was the first country in the world to introduce the 8-hour work day
A New Zealand woman became the first woman mayor of a municipality - Elizabeth Yates in 1894.
New Zealand was the first country to successfully transport refrigerated meat in large, commercially viable quantities, beginning the modern international meat and food trade... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunedin_%28ship%29
New Zealand has produced more than its fair share of artists, musicians, scholars, athletes and has suffered proportionally many more deaths and casualties in the last wars it took part in than the US...
http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/casualties_of_war.htm
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/ww2stats.htm#NZ
the problem with this country (the US) is that its less than 400 years old but thinks it knows everything - more than the other cultures in the world who have been around for 2 and 3,000 years... and it acts that way...
and then it gets shitty when others point out that it fails in fundamental measures of a civilised and healthy society...http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/usadecline.html
Please note - this analysis is more than 17 years old, and though its been published by a 'right winger' whose 'solutions' I dont necessarily agree with, things have not gotten any better...
http://www.globaljusticemovement.org/subpages_gwa/gpi_part1.htm
Shahila, if this is the location of the height of mediocrity, then it is quite the surprise that it is the place you have chosen to live, raise your children, and educate them. Why? You chose this place, unlike most of us.
Of course SATs matter. That's what gets people into college, if for no other reason.
I do not always agree with you, but thank you for saying the words that I have thought so many times. Sahila, if you dislike this country so very much, if we are the very pit of mediocrity that you continually suggest, then why are you still here?
With regard to the SAT, I don't think it is the be all and end all of student achievement but it is still nice to know that our students do well. It's an important measure for many schools outside of the state, schools that don't give a rip about MAP/WASL etc...
signed,
SLP
In true American fashion, the person who sold himself to me as a well rounded, self aware, reasonably healthy individual did a Jekyll and Hyde 'bait and switch', not revealing his true self until after the point of no return...
I am unused to such duplicity in either individuals or on public institutions or in society generally... my mistake, not one I am likely to make again but it in part explains my insistence on transparency...
Just FYI - I am raising one child here (his father is an American) in the interim... My other children, all grown up, were raised in New Zealand and Australia. Several factors I have no control over preclude our leaving at this point in time...
But please, spare me the "oh you're projecting your own unhappiness and cynicism/bitterness on all things american" pop psychology... I have met some wonderful individuals here, but your country, on the whole, sucks...
News about the SAT is good. To deride other commentators for celebrating mediocrity is petty and frankly simple minded. Can we not agree to celebrate successes? A "C" in algebra may be mediocre but if the previous grade was "F" it is still worth celebrating.
SLP
It's a real shame you feel this way, as there are some pretty wonderful things to experience here.
Unfortunately they don't have the full 2010 results up yet, but this is from 2009 which I'd guess would be similar:
http://www.fairtest.org/files/2009%20SAT%20Scores.pdf
(sorry- I misplaced my handy cheat sheet from the blog on how to make fancy links)
They give the credit to... increased participation in AP classes.
Well, you knew it wouldn't be a reflection on the teachers or their work since the Times doesn't think teachers influence student test scores at all.
OMG perfect timing!! The 16 yr old takes the SAT this year! I knew I was putting up with sheet rock dust in my breakfast cereal for SOME good reason!
Thinking i might remodel my bathroom, kitchen and living room in 5 years when my child will be taking the test. with three rooms remodeled, he should score really high.
found this article, quotes the person who prepared the fairtest data.
http://www.delmarvanow.com/article/20100914/DW08/9140334
jpr/seattle
Shahila, you thought love would overcome all? ???!!! And so, you moved to this rathole? Sounds like you were watching too much TV during your own formative years, and had no useful education at all!
Okay, so if you make $200K+ per year, your student is extraordinarily unlikely to get SAT scores in the 200 and 300 range. That's kind of like pointing out that rich kids almost always get enough to eat.
I don't want to imply that I think there are no disparities in how the average poor child and the average rich child fare educationally in this country -- far from it. I just don't think this particular data really tells the story on that.
Helen Schinske
I think we got to our highest point, because we took risks, because we went with our gut, because we gave it our all.
But.
Now, in terms of public education, it feels like we are jumping around so much from standard to standard and ways to break out statistics that we would do better if we stood still.
Since College Board has $ into SAT & AP, I would like to see if schools that DON"T offer AP have students who do as well. I am ok with AP, however, there are plenty of people who don't qualify for FRL for whom $80 per class is a chunk they can't afford ( like us). We had charming daughter take the class and the test anyway, but I know many who don't.
( and to all those that asked, I don't know ANYONE- who did test prep & my oldest went to SAAS & youngest to Garfield)
and a long time ago, naive little 10-year old me was suckered by the lines:
"The bluest skies you've ever seen are in Seattle, and the hills the greenest green are in Seattle... like a beautiful child, growing up free and wild, full of hopes and full of fears, full of laughter, full of tears, full of dreams to last the years in Seattle..."
courtesy of "Here Come the Brides" playing on Saturday afternoon TV in Dunedin, New Zealand... Lies, lies, damn lies = rolling on the floor laughing my arse off at the irony of it all... couldnt have imagined a satire better than the one I'm living! Big grin....
the smallest lie is that the skies are blue, let alone bluest you've ever seen (not often enough to qualify) ... hills are no greener than the ones where I grew up... the biggest lie of all is that this city/state is free and wild - if it was, it wouldnt be playing these stupid games, wouldnt be so passive aggressive, wouldnt be so ready to conform...
During that time, I became interested in the differntial between test scores of those who didn't pay for prep and those who did. As I was interested in issues of poverty and access, I promised myself that when I took the GRE I would do a little experiment:
I took the test cold, after skimming a GRE prep book; I took the test after studying hard; I took the test after paying some four hundred dollars for a prep course.
Granted, familiarity certainly raised my score each time, I'm sure, but the results were astounding. I raised my score about five percent by studying hard; I raised it another 17 perent by taking prep. So the difference was 22 percent between light study and prep, with most of the difference brought about the the prep.
I wonder how many poor families can afford a prep course, which is now over $500.
(YMCA offers an excellent, and I think free, SAT test prep course, look 'em up.)
jpr/seattle
Also, as we explained, we will try to go and look in the spam folder a couple of times a day. I just did and yes, Sahlia, your post about me telling you what is so great about the U.S. is there.
But I'm not pulling it out because:
1) it's not on topic
2) I don't need to get involved in some one upmanship about this country. You think ill of it and I love it warts and all. So be it.
And now, for the second time today, I am saying goodbye to yet another commenter. This kind of deliberately provocative, in-your-face, I'm smarter than all of you put together stuff is just tiring and annoying.
Anyone else can comment on what these two say for sure but not me.
Sahila, I see several posts from you on this thread, and they match with what I remember seeing earlier today. Maybe you've got something set up on your reader so you're not seeing your own posts?
I think test prep can raise scores a ton if you previously had test anxiety, and a ton if it actually involves subject matter tutoring that you badly needed, but I don't see it providing big huge jumps just through teaching test-taking tips and tricks to students who weren't previously that anxious or that ill-prepared.
In any case, there are lots of cheap books (free at the library), and lots of free online services like number2.com. You can take a sample PSAT online through the Seattle Public Library, for instance, and they may have other tools, I haven't looked recently.
Helen Schinske
I also think that with a few exceptions (AP Calc., AP Chemistry being 2 of them), the AP test encourages kids to go a mile wide and an inch deep. Most of my college classes, on the other hand, were far less broad -- and MUCH deeper in terms of the critical thought/reading/etc that the professors wanted.
I wish people would stop bowing down to -- and throwing so much money at -- the SAT and ACT, and the AP exams -- and just teach deeply. ON the other hand -- IF it is the existence (and passing) of AP exams that gets kids to take slightly harder (if shallower) courses and to study harder -- I guess that is worth something, and maybe I should just be glad for that and stop kvetching.
I think I have said this before ( but I am sure I am not the only one who repeats herself- lol)- when an experienced &/motivated teacher is allowed to do what they are trained to do, you don't need AP courses.
Oldest didn't have any offered at her prep school- didn't take any AP tests, but did VERY well on her SATs.
She did remark however, that she wished she HAD taken AP, because while her courses at SAAS were rigorous & deep, she didn't have a lot of experience juggling the breadth of material that AP forces students to take on & her college pretty much kicked her in the butt.
Although I think Reed does that do everyone anyway.
( and she was an excellent writer, which is what I think got her admitted in the first place)
Youngest had a marine biology class at Garfield, that while not AP was at LEAST as rigourous as any AP I have seen, and even covered material that her sister a 2nd year biology major at Reed hadn't dealt with yet.
We also found that the ACT suits some students much better than the SAT, different material, presented in a slightly different manner.
Also- while some colleges either accept other forms of evaluation besides SAT/ACT or even DON"T accept test scores, they also require quite a bit of other material instead of the scores. So much , that in some cases, it would be MUCH easier just to take the frigging test.
There seem to be a whole lot more AP tests now than there were when I was in high school. In a heavily college prep high school, we just had classes preparing us for calculus, physics, chemistry, biology, and there might have been one for American history. Only the smartest kids in each subject would take them -- less than 10% of the students in each grade. It makes me thing the exams have been watered down, or else there are a lot of kids taking the class who never take the exam, or maybe they just take it and don't do well enough to get college credit.
HA -- wv says, of all things, "cheat" --I guess he (she?) doesn't like tests so much.
Jan - SPS has already "definitively determined exactly what must, and need not be, covered". They have set (GLE's) Grade Level expectations, and (EALR's) Essential Academic learning requirements - and the WASL/HSPE already tests kids on their acquisition of these skills/standards. In fact passage of the math portion is a graduation requirement.
From the SPS website:
"Seattle Public Schools is a standards-based system. The District system is aligned with the Washington State system in establishing expectations for what students should know and be able to do.
Washington State has adopted Essential Academic Learning Requirements (EALR) to articulate the State's expectations and learning standards. EALRs are specified for reading, writing, mathematics, science, and social studies. EALRs are aligned with the Washington Assessment of Student Learning (WASL). Click here to review Washington State EALRs. http://www.k12.wa.us/curriculumInstruct/default.aspx
EALRs now include grade-level expectations (GLEs). GLEs specify what a child is to know and be able to do, grades K-10 in reading and mathematics. GLEs were developed to clarify the skills and strategies all students need to demonstrate proficiency in for each of the content areas. Click here to review Washington State GLEs in reading and mathematics."
In the end, I trust the "questing human spirit" far more than any bureaucracy, and its cost efficiencies, consensus building, etc.
But I am now so far from discussing SAT scores that I had better stop.
WV now says "disourph" -- which I think means, she only gives out "real words" once every 40 ro 50 times -- and RELEVANT real words are scarce as hens' teeth.