Downtown Seattle Association Has a Great Idea for Where to Put a School
Update: according to the Times some non-profits are already circling the building but I suspect that if the district got an application together, they might move up that list given they are a public entity.
Apparently, though, (and this is just what I thought the district would say), the Times is reporting Flip Herndon as saying that it would take a lot of work as a school and at what cost. He's right as the building has asbetos, seismic retrofitting and updating work to be done (the Times cites a figure of $40M).
But honestly, is this looking a gift horse in the mouth? Of course, nothing is truly free but compared to the costs of finding land and building, this may be the best chance the district has.
I felt certain the district wouldn't want to divert off its "Strategic Plan" for anything. They truly need help in looking at the vast facilities and capacity problems - hello, City?
End of update.
I received what I believe is a fairly amazing press release this morning from the Downtown Seattle Association. They firmly believe a downtown school is needed and have now found a possible location (complete with building) - the former Federal Reserve building, on Second Avenue between Spring and Madison.
FREE. We like free.
About the site:
The existing structure contains 90,000 square feet—enough to meet the SPS specification for more than 550 students. The site is ideally situated to take advantage of downtown educational opportunities, such as the Central Library (two blocks away), Soundbridge at Benaroya (only 2.5 blocks away), and the Seattle Art Museum (two blocks away). The existing structure has plenty of roof space (and plenty of capacity under the zoned height limits) to develop a rooftop playground, similar to the successful new space atop the Northwest School’s recent expansion on Capitol Hill.
And if that weren’t enough, the building even looks like a school.
This shows people who are doing the heavy-lift of truly looking around and finding possibilities. It may not be the perfect but it is a start and a wonderful one at that. There could be state dollars to aid this effort and yes, even dollars from heavy hitters like Amazon and Vulcan. There's logistics and everything that comes with it but I applaud this group their effort and what they have discovered in support of Seattle Public Schools.
Apparently, though, (and this is just what I thought the district would say), the Times is reporting Flip Herndon as saying that it would take a lot of work as a school and at what cost. He's right as the building has asbetos, seismic retrofitting and updating work to be done (the Times cites a figure of $40M).
But honestly, is this looking a gift horse in the mouth? Of course, nothing is truly free but compared to the costs of finding land and building, this may be the best chance the district has.
I felt certain the district wouldn't want to divert off its "Strategic Plan" for anything. They truly need help in looking at the vast facilities and capacity problems - hello, City?
End of update.
I received what I believe is a fairly amazing press release this morning from the Downtown Seattle Association. They firmly believe a downtown school is needed and have now found a possible location (complete with building) - the former Federal Reserve building, on Second Avenue between Spring and Madison.
The Downtown Seattle Association (DSA), Downtown Residents Council, Downtown Seattle Families and other partner organizations have sent a letter to Seattle Public Schools (SPS) Superintendent Jose Banda, to alert district officials about the unique opportunity to acquire, at no cost, a suitable building and land Downtown which could serve as the location for a new Downtown public school.
The federal government is disposing of the former Federal Reserve building, located at 1015 2nd Avenue between Spring and Madison streets. Federal law stipulates that the U.S. government will convey a federally owned building and land for free to a public entity if this property is to be operated for public use, which includes a school district opening a school.
The federal government is disposing of the former Federal Reserve building, located at 1015 2nd Avenue between Spring and Madison streets. Federal law stipulates that the U.S. government will convey a federally owned building and land for free to a public entity if this property is to be operated for public use, which includes a school district opening a school.
FREE. We like free.
About the site:
The existing structure contains 90,000 square feet—enough to meet the SPS specification for more than 550 students. The site is ideally situated to take advantage of downtown educational opportunities, such as the Central Library (two blocks away), Soundbridge at Benaroya (only 2.5 blocks away), and the Seattle Art Museum (two blocks away). The existing structure has plenty of roof space (and plenty of capacity under the zoned height limits) to develop a rooftop playground, similar to the successful new space atop the Northwest School’s recent expansion on Capitol Hill.
The site has good transportation access. Not only is it within walking distance of thousands of downtown homes, but it is well-served by public transit.
And if that weren’t enough, the building even looks like a school.
This shows people who are doing the heavy-lift of truly looking around and finding possibilities. It may not be the perfect but it is a start and a wonderful one at that. There could be state dollars to aid this effort and yes, even dollars from heavy hitters like Amazon and Vulcan. There's logistics and everything that comes with it but I applaud this group their effort and what they have discovered in support of Seattle Public Schools.
Comments
-sleeper
-Downtown Dad
sj
More news:
"GSA is required to coordinate with the U.S.Department of Housing and Urban Development(HUD) to determine if surplus Federal property is
suitable and/or available for use to assist the homeless as soon as it is declared ‘surplus’ to the
Federal Government.
If the property is suitable for
homeless use, GSA must first consider homeless needs before any other public uses can be considered. Properties can be used to provide shelter, services, storage, or other uses which
benefit homeless persons."
So there is a group putting together an application for homeless use (I have to say this does not go over big with the commenters at the Times but they never like anything.) I can see how this could be good because downtown does have a large homeless population.
I personally think the district should use some of that $5M they have from BEX IV for this purpose to commission a study from Moss-Adams on the viability of this idea. And now.
I would be much more comfortable having my elementary school students at the Seattle Center versus 2nd avenue.
Also, if SPS has $40 million then I think they should renovate that empty building in Magnolia.
A K-12 downtown school would not solve all the capacity issues but it sure would be a huge help.
Seattle Center has said they would keep Center School but that would be leased space. And, if you expand, more costs.
The $40M would likely not come just from SPS but the State would kick in as well.
We don't have a lot of choices downtown and that's why if any come up, we need to explore them.
The fact is that the District is in desperate need of additional space and should be actively looking for opportunities just like this - wherever they appear in the city.
While the need for space south of the Ship Canal is not as dire as the need north of it, a downtown space like this could be used for a non-geographic community that draws largely or exclusively from the north-end like CPPP, APP, or an alternative program like AS#1/IH.
Put AS#1 downtown and that program will suddenly get very, very popular.
Westside
Westside
There are not a lot of opportunities. There is maybe one or two others, and they are, frankly, worse.
Let this deal be supported or opposed on its own merits, but it makes no sense to pass up this deal in favor of some other deal that doesn't exist.
Also, the very last thing that downtown needs, or can withstand, is more services, shelters, etc. If you live in the downtown core (as I do) or visit downtown you know that we are already overwhelmed. While Times commenters are generally unreadably rabid, it is true that over 90% of King County services and housing are sited in our downtown core. This is terrible policy and absolutely must stop.
SPS, think ahead, find some sense of urgency and vision, and explore this opportunity before it's too late because it won't come along again any time soon.
The military left in 2011 and it's now in City's hand. This PUBLIC property is worth keeping an eye on. Otherwise it may well go to developers to build million dollar homes on, which is what happened to the old Briarcliff ES. If you check the city's own plan, they are just sitting on this huge property while they are considering use (including for market rate homes). The city could have offered this space to NW center for kids- just one of the newer buildings.....
http://www.seattle.gov/neighborhoods/fortlawton/brac/default.htm
voter
voter
There is currently a space crunch for the federally mandated Special Education Developmental Preschools - which have been in Seattle Schools for over 30 years (does anyone know that?) .
Some have been or will be housed in portables or other left over spaces. Each and every year, they are threatened with being pushed out. Don't forget those voices in the "master plan!"
Casey
I'm with Charlie; how is it possible to get what we what where we want it at a decent price in downtown Seattle? Good luck with that (unless you are willing to sell your first-born - and their data - to Jeff Bezos, Paul Allen and Bill Gates).
I'm with Charlie; how is it possible to get what we what where we want it at a decent price in downtown Seattle? Good luck with that (unless you are willing to sell your first-born - and their data - to Jeff Bezos, Paul Allen and Bill Gates).
-critical-
You will never get a downtown school (unless it is absolutely at the terms of Amazon and Vulcan).
NO.
SPS can't afford the time or the money of studying the building and couldn't handle the building rehab if it got it.
-critical-
-critical-
As for other sites -- first, eminent domain is expensive (and some of those buildings were surplussed initiall because of high renovation costs, coupled with declining enrollment). I don't think you are getting U Heights back at any kind of a bargain price! Seconed--none of them are downtown. The OTHER thing (besides just space) is trying to fulfill the call by downtown business interests and residents for a downtown school. 2nd and Spring would do that. It has great bus service; light rail goes within about 2 blocks. You could come up with some amazing programs in law and justice (with the courthouses and city hall just a few blocks away) and marine science, with the aquarium within walking distance.
This office building would require considerable renovation and remediation. Lead paint? Probably. Seismic retrofit? Yes. New partitions, power, network, plumbing, cafeteria. There's no gym, parking, music rooms or auditorium.
Finally, fulfilling downtown business interests is really low on my list.
Until we get crackin on planning and funding enormous space challenges already existing elsewhere in SPS, sinking money into that building or any other building downtown needs to be second priority.
We should move toward a downtown facility, but not at the cost of it jumping the line of extremely urgent projects elsewhere in SPS.
DistrictWatcher
What I like about the downtown location is that it is a lot of space and in a central (flexible) area. I have been in that building many times, and it is a lot nicer than many schools currently in use. What the downtown interest group is calling for doesn't really come into it, but I also don't care if they get what they want when the district gets something good- win win, great.
I think the above posters' notions about asbestos are somewhat outdated, from when asbestos litigation still had less certain parameters. There are remediation steps to take now, guidelines to follow, which keep people safe and entities safe from litigation. It was scary in the 80's, though. It's also up for grabs, unlike the buildings we already sold of. I also agree with above posters that it's not as suitable for use by the homeless coalition because that location is saturated. What homelessness in this city needs is money and more services outlying. What the schools need is space. This is space.
-sleeper
That is an idea I've had for a long time - it would, I think, be a win-win b/c I understand Magnolia doesn't want a lot more housing - the schools there now certainly can't support a lot more housing (and it's not going to end up low density million dollar homes on city land - don't know who thinks that - it will be high density mixed use, which will break those two schools from a capacity standpoint too, and hugely impact Ballard HS).
So - yes, make a new HS complex at Discovery park. Lots of transportation along 15th, and SPS could run a short shuttle from rapid ride lines on the arterial round trip to and from school in the am and pm - it would be very cost effective to have shuttle school bus running that route. City could install bike lockers at the base of Magnolia, some HS kids would come on rapid ride and bike up to Discovery Park - nice bike route separated from arterial.
The only population I think the fed building could work for is ... World School (older kids don't need playground, can use public transportation, centrally located, and TT Minor WILL BE NEEDED for elem and is much better for Elem. ... why would SPS put HS in TT Minor building and elem. kids in a downtown office bldg.? Just saying). Possibly work for Cascade, but not for any preschools or full-time elem, in my opinion.
Signed: Discovery Park
Auditorium? Apparently no one cares in the district so no problem.
Yes, there are 29 underground parking spaces (yes, I checked).
Again, I ask - why is considering this bad? How does it slow anything else down or take money away? (I love that the Genesee Hill project is $2M over budget but no one here is upset about that.)
Discovery Park might be good for a high school but that's not what DSA is talking about here.
-sleeper
Rat-infested, falling apart portables that landed in NYC with the kid population booming are now permanent, despite promises from politicians. Sound familiar?
EdVoter
Genessee Hill is a travesty.
I am very discouraged at poorly the district has done it so far given both how dire the space need is and how well within their rights they were both recent times, and think public opinion is not especially swayed by portable farms (there are already so many, but people are just used to them, think it's whining when parents complain). But we need the space. So we should take back leased buildings.
I just also know that comparing enforcing lease terms with eminent domain/taking of a property owned by someone else is apples to...something extremely huge and un-apple like. Apples to pianos. And leased buildings on their own are not enough. So we need to look at this downtown property too, which may turn out to have prohibitive construction issues, but does NOT have the same litigation issues as u heights.
-sleeper
Does anyone know his reason for saying it's not a possibility?
Westside
Westside
As to why Dr. Herndon would say it's not possible, here's a couple of thoughts.
One, the district didn't think this up themselves. Truly. Anything that Facilities doesn't think up on their own, they are very wary of.
Two, too much on their plate. I get that (and I have criticized their ability in being able to cover all the moving pieces) but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
My question is = what could it hurt?
I put this to the Board but, of course, no answer.
Just like AL, most of them have little real interest or knowledge about facilities so they will just pivot off whatever staff says.
That's what I know. If you have questions around this please contact Flip directly (info. in the dirrectory at the "front" of the blo
The fact that the guy comments on this blog using his name is amazing enough. The fact that he speaks directly and candidly is almost unreal.
He is loyal to his co-workers without being a pawn. You can tell he actually cares about doing a good job.
I want to clone the guy.
--enough already
Does anyone look at, think, talk, etc about the site at Discovery Park?
The feds have put a fancy VA treatment center on the upper lot, but I think it's something very limited like chemo appointments - it's not a hospital or full-time facility, I believe (but it's beautiful).
The lower buildings and area - and it's a BIG area - are the ones the city controls, I believe. I've heard a plan for mixed income housing, I've heard fancy housing, I've heard very dense housing - I've heard Magnolia doesn't want any of those and it's all stalled. I don't know any realities.
The one reality I know is that it's a big lot, and if the city wants to partner w/SPS, this is a great site to start.
Might actually be a better location than Lincoln for a new HS, I think, b/c has fields (Magnolia would like more fields) and can be used for QA, Magnolia, downtown - transit to downtown is good - and some sort of option draw to draw off the other neighborhood schools north, maybe.
The rapid ride line goes all the way to west Seattle - so it could easily be drawn to give preference to everyone along rapid ride.
Has SPS started to explore Discovery Park area with city at all?
The question should not be either-or with regard to this, University Hights, Ft Lawton and other sites. If Kellie's numbers elsewhere are correct, Seattle will need seats for 13,000 more students in the next 10 years. If we have 5000-kid cohorts in K+1, and they remain in SPS till high-school, we will need capacity for 6,400 additional HS students in approx. 10 years, and half that number in 4-5 years. We will need every building we can get.
The federal building location would be a great place for the World School or for a STEM-oriented HS program.
I wonder how well it would work as a K-5 or K-8. For kids living in the downtown core it would be great. Would it work to try to bring school-busses in from other areas into downtown traffic? Would parents who worked downtown take their kids in on public transit they way they do with downtown daycares? Will parents stay in downtown condo's when their kids get older (I have heard that in Vancouver, parents tend to stay in downtown high-rises until their kids are about 8-10, then move out for larger digs).
It would not be a great place for Pinehurst/IH due to the lack of green space - we are already working on a native plant / indegenous foods garden and outdoor spaces will be an important part of the curriculum.
Either way SPS is going to need all the space we can get.
Have they already been sold?
Is there any other land between Jackson and Mercer that could soon be for sale?