Puzzled Me This: What's Going on With APP?
APP just grows and grows. Now some of that may be better outreach, some may be parents seeing the writing on the wall and fleeing Spectrum but APP seems to be growing. There are six classes of second graders at Cascadia. It does beg the question of how all these students will fit into the new elementary at Wilson-Pacific. The short answer would be that they probably won't but where would half of them go?
Tomorrow, October 8th, is the deadline to apply for AL programs. There are two testing sites and each school (in a group) gets one testing day. From the Advanced Learning webpage:
You will receive a testing appointment time for that day as soon as the scheduling can be accomplished. Please make every effort to keep this appointment, as no rescheduling will be possible until well into the new year. We expect over 5000 applications this year, and there is LIMITED flexibility in scheduling.
The first testing day is coming up fast on October 17th for students in schools in some parts of the NE/NW. Something interesting is how the early testing dates in October have fewer schools in their groupings than later testing dates (although I see that they are also testing private school students so AL may hold out more spaces for those students because they don't know how many will be coming).
Tomorrow, October 8th, is the deadline to apply for AL programs. There are two testing sites and each school (in a group) gets one testing day. From the Advanced Learning webpage:
You will receive a testing appointment time for that day as soon as the scheduling can be accomplished. Please make every effort to keep this appointment, as no rescheduling will be possible until well into the new year. We expect over 5000 applications this year, and there is LIMITED flexibility in scheduling.
The first testing day is coming up fast on October 17th for students in schools in some parts of the NE/NW. Something interesting is how the early testing dates in October have fewer schools in their groupings than later testing dates (although I see that they are also testing private school students so AL may hold out more spaces for those students because they don't know how many will be coming).
Comments
Now, with the appeals and the weird screener thing, I wonder if they are trying to or hoping to shrink HCC enrollment and won't peel off part, and just put it all at Wilson Pacific with portables. I totally support shrinking HCC in theory, but I hope they are not keeping out kids who need it most. And, well, I think if this is what they are doing it completely sucks of them not to simultaneously increase advanced learning opportunities at neighborhood schools, and I doubt they are. All those families have tried at their neighborhood schools, and it didn't work, so without district pressure it's not going to happen. Plus the schools the kids would stay at are the most crowded in the district.
It is puzzling, for sure.
-sleeper
Alys
Where exactly is that info Alys? I don't see it on either AL home or eligibility page.
-Do it
Under referral and testing.
And I liked that the video was a clear attempt at outreach toward minority families. There's no one silver bullet to fix equity, but this can help.
I still think these changes need to be made in tandem with increased advanced learning opportunities at neighborhood schools. Triply so if we are swinging back toward "fidelity of implementation." Kids need different things.
-sleeper
SPS doesn't really want to let any kids escape the regular classroom. Spectrum was not intended as a gifted program at all; it was a pressure release valve and a purely political thing. The district knows there will be:
1) some parents who will complain loudly non-stop and be major pains in the butt unless there is some way to accommodate their bright youngsters. Spectrum was grease for squeaky wheels.
2) "Economically important people" might not view Seattle so favorably, and bring jobs and office leases to Seattle, if their very important kids were not assured an escape from the regular classroom.
Problem is, as the regular classroom grows ever more "inclusive" and politically correct, the desperation to escape it grows apace. Hence the 5,000 referrals for testing. Spectrum apparently grew too big, and as a result, had to be diluted to nothing (according to other commenters here; I have no personal knowledge).
Now with Spectrum being nothing, everyone is stampeding into APP because it's apparently still something. Hence the growing numbers.
p.s. We've been through enough of the year to suspect that our school's promise to differentiate and challenge every child is an almost complete fraud. And Seattle schools are not actually very good for bright kids unless they can escape into APP.
seen it
1) Struggling or at-risk students are believed to do better if working side by side with successful peers (though statements like "this is easy" must literally be banned from the classroom.)
2) Kids who need more challenge and higher expectations often have clear advantages in life: stable, loving, supportive families; good nutrition; rich lives outside of school. The social justice crowd believes these advantages should be commandeered and shared around by forcing the high achievers to help their peers with low-level work rather than working to their own potential.
Nothing is happening by accident. And it is definitely inclusivity and political correctness that are the driving forces (along with possible fear of legal challenges based on PC principles).
APP [HCC!]
I think class sizes have ballooned to the point that differentiation is impossible and Spectrum has been dismantled (you can see an influx at Lincoln each time a new Spectrum program was dismantled from whichever school). And as schools have gotten crowded principals are no longer interested in keeping students of any kind. Shipping them out is better. So when a parent tries to advocate for advanced learning, they are given a "no, try APP." When I first toured Bryant elementary, a decade ago now, the principal was wildly proud of the number of advanced learners they kept at the school and the different programs they offer. And they did- people did not leave in the kinds of numbers they do now. None of that is there now, and enormous numbers of kids leave. Programs that used to try to allow 2 years up of walk to math are now only allowing one. That sort of thing.
I would not say all neighborhood schools do a bad job with bright kids, but many of the most overcrowded ones do and ship the most kids out. They're also the wealthiest schools. It is a mess. But I think for different reasons than you say. I am hopeful that some of these changes may help, but it's not really going to get better without more advanced learning in more schools.
-sleeper
-sleeper
Alys
Skeptic
Alys
-ThereUHaveIt
And of course, a six hour a day, September through June preschool isn't what most middle-class families want for their children. If they have a stay at home parent, a half day three days a week schedule provides everything they need. If they need child care to cover full-time work hours, they need nine hours a day year-round.
Washington DC elementary schools offer free preschool for three and four year olds. (I believe with an admissions lottery.) That might have drawn some families in.
- long gone
I believe most if not all HCC parents believe in the ideal but see no move or very little towards serving their children's end of the spectrum.
When the local schools can deliver the goods to those parents they will stay. It doesn't have to be self-contained and obviously won't be, but grouping strategies and some basic training can give most kids what they need, If there is the will. The problem is the district have to get their AL people out in the field. Most. I hope, of them are "highly capable" and have story to tell.
KI
When numbers really increased was when they stopped using the WJ and moved to MAP, a test not designed for this purpose. I know correlation does not equate with causation, and I am wondering if others think the achievement testing changed things...? The district has also dismantled any pretense at advanced learning around the neighborhood schools, so that may be all of it.
I do think the district should look at entrance criteria and see if that's an issue. I certainly does create the impression that Seattle is Lake Wobegone, and maybe it's true. I think it's important that people believe the entrance criteria gets the kids who need the program and not the ones who don't.
-harvey wallbanger
-long gone
We Jumped
We are at a SW elementary school where ALL of the HCC kids left this year. Not one single one remained. And the two Spectrum classrooms in the area had waitlists all the way until the Sept 30th deadline.
The exodus out seems to me due to the lack of incentives to stay. I have found general ed to be just dreadful for all 3 of my children. In my experience, the majority of teachers and leadership behave as if the curriculum has come straight from heaven and if students are not responding positively to it, then something is wrong with the kids.
SW Mom
What happened?
1) 3 principals within 9 years, all of whom HATE advanced learning
2) Quality of the Spectrum program has gone down - the difference between my two children's education is shocking
3) Families have been told to either take their APP spot or home-school
4) Lots of new teachers who "go along to get along" with the principal
The principal has announced that this is the last year for self-contained Spectrum. The school will provide Spectrum services but will use a new model. Plan to be determined ... ???
No Longer a Wildcat
Alys, the exiting info is old and not surprisingly has been seldom needed. 98% IQ's don't evaporate. My understanding is that comes in play when other health issues are encountered by the student.
Got my ES - HC kids SBAC results back with the explanation that they were equivalent to others in their grade at their school but higher than others in other schools in the district and the state. They got roughly 2550/2620 of the available points in both subjects. So 97.3 percent. Not sure how that reflects to regional percentile but I would have to assume pretty good.
A few compounds:
Tested on material taught two years before- so should have mastery
Tested on material taught two years prior- so may not be remembered
Train wreck test- but I guess that was universal
Now keep in mind SBAC will be the gate keeper test so what does 97% correct answers mean in student grade percentiles. I would guess 98+ which is inline with Map percentiles. Good luck families and AL dept. This is sure to be another interesting year(s).
-Do it
It isn't an oversight. It isn't a mistake. It's the plan.
It is the plan because it facilitates their capacity management. It allows them to transfer students from overcrowded areas by making them part of non-geographic community that can be relocated to available space. The operations tail wags the instructional dog yet again.
-ThereUHaveIt
Differentiation in the general education classrooms -- the danielson rubric is supposed to capture that isn't it? -- it is so not a priority. It doesn't really even seem to be a major part of professional practice. Whatever the danielson rubric says to the contrary.
Reader
-ThereUHaveIt
open ears
"It is the plan because it facilitates their capacity management."
Right on. Capacity is the number one problem in the district and having a few thousand kids who can be moved at will is real safety valve.
By the same token, it's not a bad deal for HCC kids; they do get the cohort experience and some degree of acceleration. Way better than at their local schools.
Like everything in the public domain, it's a compromise. It serves the most kids the best and I'd give the district some credit for making HCC so available, despite the problems.
Let's face it, trying to serve the HC kids at every school is huge mandate. I don't hear a huge voice calling for better AL opportunities at each local school. So, until that happens, the district will continue to offer the cohort and bus kids and use them as capacity tools.
Well, you don't get a huge voice when parents are repeatedly smacked down - by other parents, teachers, principals - for even asking questions. I think HCC parents have pretty much learned their lesson. Spectrum parents just kept their heads down, thinking it would save the program.
Didn't work.
Helen
Basically, a typical FUBAR work day in Seattle. I can replace SPS bureaucracy for the city's and get similar scenario.
gopher
But the books are the right level and the math is not as boring as it would be back at the neighborhood school. If the neighborhood schools were just doing walk to math and reading groups- POOF. A huge percentage would never come. Of course then all these APP students would stay in crowded areas that the district doesn't really want them staying in. I think the district feels it's getting a little big, so they want to make it a little smaller. But in a way they can entirely control (testing).
-sleeper
"Well, you don't get a huge voice when parents are repeatedly smacked down - by other parents, teachers, principals - for even asking questions. I think HCC parents have pretty much learned their lesson."
That's so true. The district has forced families into HCC by neglect, intimidation, scorn, etc., so they can have this large pool of movable bodies.
It's too much to fight against when all you want is a half decent education for your kid.
My older kid qualified last year but we didn't move him from the neighborhood school. Reading all this I feel like I'm grateful we qualified under the old rules as everything seems uncertain.
NorthEndMom
planning ahead
Just wanted to put out there that at my son's middle school curriculum night, his principal stated - loudly and in no uncertain terms - that her teachers had received and would continue to receive training in differentiated instruction, and that challenging and meeting ALL students' needs was a primary concern at the school. Not sure how this actually translates in the classroom, but I was pleasantly surprised to hear a public acknowledgement of the needs of advanced learners in a non-HCC school."
I heard this as well. I'll believe it if and when I see it. I asked my kids if they had ever received any kind of differentiation....anything other than the same assignments everyone else gets....any kind of extra challenge to think at all....the answer was "no". I can't recall a single instance either. Three years at this school. I think her comments were nothing more than a palliative to parents whose kids lost Spectrum in the school's switch to blended. But I hope to be proven wrong.
This is a school that dumped a bunch of kids who'd had algebra early into a failed, lost, miserable year of on-line geometry.
realist
I think that so many educational challenges could be dramatically improved with smaller class sizes. I'm not a teacher, but it makes sense to me that you can't differentiate K-2 classes of 28+ kids effectively or effectively include kids with special needs. Now take a class of 15-20 kids, ideally with an assistant for at least the academic part of the day and you could do so much more to include and differentiate. But $$$.
North Seattle
HCC observer
Sure there is variability throughout your life but not enough to warrant exiting kids out ... unless there are extenuating circumstances beyond classroom achievement kids stay in the program. Or at least that is my experience with over 20 years combined kid APP/HCC experience.
Private testing is provided for any FRL student.
And yeah CM hit the nail on the head... it's all about capacity.
-Do it
-frustrated parent
It's not hostility and intimidation toward the parents that made me back down, but the ways my 7 year old was targeted.
Yes, the teachers are responsible for standing up for the right thing, even if that means risking their jobs and offending the principal.
We all face these ethical judgments in our professions and we are all responsible for our corner of the world. Teachers are no exception.
Why would Spectrum/HC fight to remain in the local elementary schools? They are AWFUL. Getting out is a bonus, not a burden.
SW Mom
Great, and good luck. If only we could hear the same in all HCC middle schools!
There are also special programs at McClure which require a level of insight and compassion unfamiliar to most of us and the staff and students do a good job there as well.
They sort of got to start fresh when busing stopped and they created a healthy culture for kids, including HC and Spectrum.
My 2
Did you type 'QA/Mag has really enjoyed having the change'? Yes, you did.
'My 2': Perhaps I will throw a bone and believe you meant no disrespect in your attempt to promote your school. But you did just show why Seattle is spotlighted as having some of the least educational equity compared to all districts in the f'n nation.
Economic privilege. White privilege. OK commenter may not be white but QA-Magnolia demos skew heavily that way. Both alive, well and unexamined in SPS North End.
Here's a clue for the North APP parents worried about getting the perfect education for their kids. A perfect education is about more than APP academic challenge. It's about recognizing and operating in a world that doesn't look majority white, wealthy, sheltered. That's the reality in our city, if not in the McClure school. Our kids down here - ever come down here? - are kicking it despite the lack of north end navelgazers advocating for us.
The country our kids are facing as adults will not be majority white. It's likely to be less prosperous than now. The students at which middle schools are being prepared for this world?
Southie
Maybe worse!
My 2
I agree, there's some irony there.
"I think that so many educational challenges could be dramatically improved with smaller class sizes."
I absolutely agree.
Southie, I would point out that Aki Kurose has gotten hugely better, test scores and all. Denny is a very good middle school with solid, long-time leadership. South Shore K-8 gets nearly a million dollars a year more (plus F&E levy money).
Cargopants
What???
I note that Alki has started a GoFundMe campaign to save their teacher.
https://www.gofundme.com/alkiway
"The Alki Way is to "Always Be Responsible". Repeated lack of proper planning is not responsible! This same issue affected Gatewood Elementary last year and it seems nothing was learned.
Issues:
1. Alki Elementary was allocated staffing for the express purpose of reducing split classes in our school. The staffing that has been pulled is the staffing that was allocated for that purpose, resulting in both an additional split class AND at least one class in overload status.
2. As a choice school, we are enrolling students from other SPS schools and now resources are being pulled from our building."
Has nothing to do with skin color. If SPS had bussed in a random sample of kids from the south end, it would have been a fine school. But it was not a random sample, it was the real problem kids. When things switched to neighborhood assignment neighborhood families had no choice and McClure seats were filled up by kids with behavior more along a normal curve of good to bad, instead of a concentration of kids at the bad end of the curve. That changed the school considerably.
Former QA resident
I didn't have a good answer at the time (explaining SPS issues feels like such a swampy mess, I inevitably get tangled up and have to backtrack) but Charlie's comment makes it crystal clear and leaves me with a sinking feeling. So those comments about parents getting smacked down when they advocate for advanced learning at their neighborhood schools. Good times ahead.
-New Mom
Also I'm wondering if the schools here are much smaller than the ones I'm used to. I came from schools with up to five classes per grade.
-New Mom
Yogapants
Now that numbers are down and they are losing an FTE, they are asking parents to pay to retain this bizarre management position.
NP
Here's a link to a schedule that might be interesting to you. If you look at page 8, you'll see APP@Lincoln - it's the self-contained program for north end highly capable students in grades 1-5. The most students any school sends is only 85. No single school has enough students for a classroom per grade. http://sps.ss8.sharpschool.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Reports/Annual%20Enrollment/Section%204%20(1).pdf
Here's another link - this one is a schedule of September 2015 enrollment for 2015-16 by school. That will tell you how large our schools are. http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/Migration/General/P223_sep15.pdf
-sleeper
To Ingraham
-from Ballard (130)
-from Garfield (14)
-from Roosevelt (150)
-from Nathan Hale (92)
To Garfield
-from Ballard (48)
-from Roosevelt (50)
-from Ingraham (11)
-from Nathan Hale (23)
-from Franklin (107)
-from West Seattle (79)
-a reader
-curious