Ballard Meeting with Flip Herndon
I was unable to attend but I thought I'd throw up an open thread on high school issues.
Link to discussion at APP website:
http://discussapp.blogspot.com/2016/02/flip-herndon-talk-at-ballard-high.html
Link to discussion at APP website:
http://discussapp.blogspot.com/2016/02/flip-herndon-talk-at-ballard-high.html
Comments
1. Bell Time shift adjustments.
2. The new 24 Credit requirement.
The first issue was more about rearranging after school activities like sports. District support like additional lights for practicing on darker sports fields would help but I don't see that coming. There were also some implications for free breakfast and general scheduling.
The second, however, is a state mandate and its clear the district is still trying desperately to avoid adding a 7th period. Personally, I think that's the best solution in this case despite all the cascading consequences.
This is a huge lift and I know both staff and Board directors are very worried about its implementation.
- Ballard capacity is 1600 students, enrollment is currently just over 1700.
- SPS's 5-year enrollment plan projects 2000 more students in the current Ballard attendance area.
- New levy includes funds to add 500 seats at Ingraham.
- New levy includes funds to re-open Lincoln High with 1600 seats in 2019. It is being used as a temporary school site through the 2018/2019 school year, so SPS doesn't want to open it before then
- 500 seats at Ingraham + 1600 seats at Lincoln are expected to cover the overage of 2000 at Ballard.
- Public meetings to discuss the boundary change meetings will commence in about a year.
- The district claims they will try to grandfather students into their current school, but may need to move students, even as late as senior year.
All of the above is implied by the current SPS Enrollment Plan, but it was helpful to have it spelled out. The Q&A was mostly useless--the few meaty questions about how the process of setting boundaries and transitioning between schools would occur were met with equivocation.
-sleeper
-sleeper
Sleeper- Flip didn't say who was using Lincoln in 2017-2018, just that it was going to be in use.
HP
https://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/Enrollment%20Planning/Projections/Five%20Year%20Projections%202015%20to%202019.pdf
Also, does anyone know the answer to this: Didn't the LAST capital levy provide the money for Lincoln?
Discovering Math
I'm probably wrong about the new levy covering Lincoln. Looking at my notes, I didn't write that down, just that the new levy covers adding 500 seats at Ingraham. So you could be correct that it was paid for by a previous levy.
*Correct, Lincoln remodel funds are not part of the new levy.
*Lincoln construction/remodel starts the summer of 2017, as soon as Lincoln and Licton Springs move out. It will be closed for two years and open in 2019 as Lincoln High School. Flip said that is the absolute tightest timeframe for the remodel.
*I believe the 2000 more students by 2020 was for the entire city -- not just Ballard. And by 2025 there would be 4000 more.
*Lincoln will take pressure off of Garfield, Roosevelt and Ballard. Which in turn will take pressure off Ingraham and Hale.
*They are also looking to add HS space as close to QA as they can find it.
good fit
"Lincoln High School – Opens 2019"
To note, as SPS' Joe Wolf has noted, the district would like to build a high school downtown at Memorial Stadium. They have the land and it certainly would take the pressure off Garfield/Ballard. But that's BEX V and that's a long way off.
On WMS: What are some of their needs? A middle school alternative school and a middle math text.
On Madrona: Madrona is a K-8 in a unique older building with elementary on one side, middle on the other. And no connection between them except for the gym itself and a narrow second floor hallway.
I wonder if they are planning a middle school alternative program at Madrona. (Though the plan at one point was for a middle school program at NOVA.)
Superintendent Nyland also visited Garfield's PTSA meeting where he shared that Garfield is not expected to house 100s more students. Several efforts are underway that should limit the upward enrollment. Lincoln will be reopening. A new HCC pathway will likely open..
Garfield is expected to be almost 700 students over capacity the year before Lincoln reopens. Where is this new pathway and when will it open?
good fit
good fit
High school is high stakes.
Did Herndon indicate if/when the district/he will be meeting with school communities in the actual Lincoln High area--those most likely to be impacted by its opening?
good fit
I find those statements very odd. The district had Memorial Stadium before there was a Seattle Center. Thanks for letting me know because now my radar is up. There had better not be any exchange of ANY land without through vetting.
I thought that Memorial Stadium was an actual memorial to WWI vets. Are they just waiting for them to die off so they can do something else with the property? There are a lot of schools that use the stadium for their home games: Roosevelt, Ballard, Franklin, Cleveland, Garfield. Where will these games go?
There has been a suggestion to use Raider Field for Roosevelt also. Perhaps Ingraham can share with Ballard.
HP
Yes, at all costs the district needs the stadium but the previous talk between the district and the City was to swap some land, leaving the stadium to the district but with City access for other events. The district was to get some land in trade. This was several years back and I was told that plan was defunct. Hmm.
Anyway, here's what I'm seeing - many of the kids brought over will be HCC kids, which actually is pretty inconvenient because they'll have been established in their various programs, IB and AP and the like. But the entire school isn't HCC, correct? So what about this:
If you're rezoned into Lincoln, you have to go, if you're an incoming freshman. Maybe also if you're a sophomore. If you're a junior or senior, and already entrenched in your school, it's optional.
AT THE SAME TIME:
Maybe kids who aren't HCC, and aren't particularly attached to their current school, would like to take advantage of the new facilities. So if you're a junior or senior, attending an overcrowded school (maybe specific key schools, although at this point that's, like, all of them) you can attend Lincoln if there's an open space created by a person who doesn't want to leave their IB program (or band, or whatever).
It'd be messy, but it'd fill the seats I bet, it'd get more happy families, and honestly it's no less crazy to me than the whole HCC/option schools/waitlist thing to begin with. But then again I'm just a
-New Mom
This is something I would like see ended in this whole re-mapping.
With so many HCC middle schools in place now the whole "cohort" argument seems dated. And with three IB schools, AP classes in all high school and Running Start I really don't see why they should get such special consideration, especially when I see comments like, "HCC students would "choose" their attendance school if access was cut off from GHS." Sure would be nice to have that option...
OK, flame away... LOL
Lincoln:
BEXIV (to "open" Lincoln as a HS):$19.2M
BTAIV (systems and repairs): $65.3M
BTAIV (lower Woodland Pk fields): $2.1M
BTAIV (lower Woodland Pk lights): $.75M
Total: $87.35M
Ingraham:
BTAIV (capacity - 500 seats): $28.3M
BTAIV (systems and repairs): $2.1M
BTAIV (fields): $.5M
Total: $30.9M
Ingraham is funded for seismic repairs, and both Ingraham and Lincoln are funded for wireless upgrades from BEXIV, but I couldn't find the dollar amount.
-North-end Mom
good fit
But in context, we have a capacity problem. There are way too many kids, even with boundaries shrunk so that the schools are no longer in them, at many schools in the NE. If all the kids who has a right to go to Roosevelt suddenly went to Roosevelt, I think we would need to go to split shifts today. I don't know what Ballard is like, but if the same pattern serves as did with elementary school crowding first in the NE and then the NW, it is probably not far behind. Having this capacity problem (which would mean no decent education for every single one of those kids), we have two options. We need to either take away or make people give up the right to go to their neighborhood schools. The kids you are frustrated with having a choice have as much right to their seat in a neighborhood school as any other kid, and for the sake of all the kids who are going there, we need them not to take it. We can pull some kids out, by redistricting, by making grade level "academies," or by forcing kids to another school some other way. We are already hearing people worrying about this happening with Lincoln, and I remember quite a lot of outcry from the 6th and 7th graders reassigned to JAMS. I don't know if you were around for Jane Addams k-8 when it opened, to help deal with north end capacity(esp elementary), but the first year was a disaster. Anyone who could move moved. It did not help capacity nearly as much as it was supposed to, because people worked extra hard to leave, to go to overcrowded schools elsewhere. People left midyear for private school. Most of those kids left within a year or two. The next year, however, it was a school people opted IN to, and those families, having chosen the model and the school, were able to build a highly successful school, now with waitlists at every grade.
Which brings me to my point- to successfully alleviate capacity, you can't push families out. You have to entice families away. We can't just right size Roosevelt- there are too many kids already there, and more every year. People will try to find ways to weasel back in, and the new schools you force them to will suffer as well. In order to get people to give up their right to go to their neighborhood school, and build successful communities in time to educate the first few classes, people need to be able to opt in to wherever has space. This is why IHS is a choice- Garfield needs people to choose to leave, having been overburdened with kids that Roosevelt needed to leave. You can do this with an HCC program, or IB, or something else. HCC, though lots of people think it is "special," is free, so it's a good one for our cash strapped district to add. And HCC is a nice movable block, a fact the district has taken pretty ridiculous liberties with.
I get it that it seems unfair that some people have choice. The other option is to unfairly harm kids by forcing them out of schools. I think it's worth considering that perhaps it is better to have a little extra "good" in our system than extra "bad." I actually hope with all the new buildings the possibility of choice comes back. Seems unlikely, but it would certainly be good for the whole system.
-sleeper
Yes, HCC students have the option to stay at their attendance area school, just like any other student. But the schools near many of the HCC students are seriously over-crowded and the district needs the HCC students to put out extra effort and travel farther away to go to other schools.
HCC students have more choices, but they (and their families) usually have to put out a lot more effort to get an appropriate education.
Momof2
Of course students dont need to take an AP class to take the test.
In any case, if you are worried about college entrance, colleges do not expect students to take courses their school doesnt offer.
For that matter, one of my kids took no AP/IB courses or tests, was accepted to all her choices and graduated from one of the top schools in the country for same price as an instate college.
Additionally, some of the AP courses are much less rigourous than others, and some general ed courses much more so.
#s of students taking AP exams has limited value in school evaluation when you are looking at the long view.
HF
Mag mom
-IHS parent
HF
If the subject is interesting, students can work with the instructor and outside resources to delve more fully into the topic.
Good preparation for post high school learning, to become more self directed.
The instructors are more important, than the name of the course.
At RHS and BHS 5% of the student population are HCC qualified and are apparently getting their needs met, otherwise they would not be at the school. So this means that if you increased the HCC population to 10-15%, the result would be the same, their needs would be met.
I am not seeing the argument to maintain the option for HCC students to get to select one of three options for high school.
And as far as IBx, haven't heard great things about what is happening for 12th grade when they have finished the program and high school. All those promised internships haven't materialized. Makes me wonder if that is a program that needs to continue.
As for highly capable students attending their neighborhood schools, are you assuming that all highly capable students are interchangeable? 29 freshmen believed their needs would be met at Ballard and another 47 did not. Maybe the 47 who are not at Ballard were wrong, but I don't see that you have any information to base your opinion on.
Ingraham will continue to offer IBX as an option (mainly for kids who want to graduate early) but they are also creating a pathway for HC students to do the traditional IB. They're creating some new 10th grade classes - because guess what - they did not have four years worth of appropriate classes for kids who've been in the HCC.
First of all, just because 5% of the student population at a particular neighborhood high school is HC-qualified does not necessarily mean they are getting their academic needs met. They might have thought they would get their needs met when they chose it, or they may have other specific needs that they determined were more important than academics.
But more importantly, you are talking about kids who chose that school because, for whatever reasons, they thought it would meet their needs. What about all the others who did NOT choose that school, because they determined it would NOT meet their academic needs? Saying that if a non-HC high school works for some HC kids it must work for all is just silly, and shows no understanding of HC students.
If every high school had the resources and was committed to providing a full range of advanced courses, I'd agree with you that HC students didn't need additional options. But until that day, HC students need options. Because in many cases, the local high school really isn't a viable option at all. The HC pathway schools may be the only good option for these students--which is why the great majority of them choose an HC pathway school. Do you seriously want kids who are already bored in HCC to have to go to their neighborhood high school, which will likely make them retake classes? (Hale, for example, apparently makes HCC kids retake 2 years of science). How exactly is that more fair or equitable?
HF
-sleeper
Gandhi: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
This "me first" attitude is now in the "they fight you" stage.
--almost time
Across capacity planning, I'd love to see more discussion on longer-term planning at a public discussion level. I've been reading all of the board agendas as well as committee agendas recently, and I never see mention of longer-term planning being done around capacity other than items already in progress.
- QA Parent
Marmauset
Somehow my comment didn't come thru. In my experience, there are very few parents who are there only for their child. I'll just say that ANY parent who cares about their child is better (from a public education perspective) than one who doesn't/can't.
My experience is that most people care very deeply about their child's school and work very hard especially in elementary (which can be a problem because they burn out after 6 years and yes, middle and high schools still need parents.)
And, to my enduring happiness, there has always been a solid core of parents will to stand up for all kids. But some parents don't know what's going on elsewhere and so before we say people don't care, it may be that they don't know. That's what this blog is for.
QA Party, there is work being done for BEX V but only thru district staff. Again, FACMAC could be working on this but that group is gone. What would be great is if PTA/Soup for Teachers joined forces, created a committee and worked with staff to get data in order to advocate for capacity planning.
I have often told staff and board members that the people on the ground at schools - parents, students, teachers and staff - often understand much better the needs for their school and region.
In September of 2017, a new middle school will open in the NW Region.
Robert Eagle Staff Middle School will serve students from Greenwood, Olympic View, Northgate, Broadview-Thomson, Daniel Bagley, and Cascadia schools.
Meetings to discuss the hiring of the planning principal for this new middle school will be held at four sites. Parents of current 4th and 5th grade students are invited to attend to hear more about the hiring process and the planning that the new principal will lead during 2016-2017 to ensure a successful launch of the new school.
Parents of 6th grade middle school students at Whitman and 6th grade HCC students at Hamilton, whose reference school is one of the schools named above, are also invited to attend.
Meetings are scheduled on the following dates and times:
•February 17th at Bagley Elementary (6:30PM - 7:30PM)
•February 18th at Northgate Elementary (7 PM to 8 PM)
•February 24th at Greenwood Elementary (7PM to 8PM)
•February 25th at Cascadia Elementary Auditorium (6:30 PM to 7:30 PM)
All meetings will take place in the lunchroom unless otherwise noted at the school site. Spanish language services will be provided at Northgate and Greenwood.
Learn more about the new school on the Seattle Public Schools' Building Excellence Program website.
Northend mom
(Thanks for the info, Northend mom)
-parent
Thx
--Curious
XX