Tuesday Open Thread
The speaker list is up for the Board meeting tomorrow; not as packed as I thought with just four people on the waitlist. The majority of the speakers are speaking on high school boundaries (with several wanting to talk about Ballard High). There are only three of us speaking about the Green Dot resolution asking the City to not grant the zoning departures that Green Dot has requested. It's me, long-time watchdog, Chris Jackins, and the head of the Washington State Charter Schools Association, Patrick D'Amelio. (I knew Mr. D'Amelio when he headed the Alliance for Education and Big Brothers and Big Sisters; he's a stand-up guy.)
Comments
Finger Painting
http://taughtbyfinland.com/the-joyful-illiterate-kindergartners-of-finland/
HP
Here, my kids, who started when they were just turning 5 (summer babies), seemed like an anomaly. I see so many kids 14+ months older than my kids in the same grade as them. It creates problems. I always thought it was strange that those parents think their kids are so "gifted", but maybe they should have started a year earlier. Of course the kids are bored...
Anyway, I wonder if kindergarten is the new 1st grade since the kids in the past would have been in 1st grade.
No free choice, dramatic play, learning stations in SPS kindergarten.
My second child I'm being told needs to work on site reading of common words. Nope, I don't care what the state and schools say. He will start to read when he is ready and he is perfectly on track as a late summer birthday boy.
I know:
My name and address
Nursery rhymes
Eight colors
Right from left
Numbers 1-10
The Alphabet
Academic growth:
Sees likenesses and differences in objects, pictures and letters
Hears likenesses and differences in sounds
Is acquiring readiness for number work
Social work habits:
Listens and follows directions
Works and plays well with other children
Attentive when others talk
Obeys quickly and cheerfully
Takes part in class discussion
Uses art materials (paint, paste, crayons, scissors)
Participates in music and rhythms
-SeaMom
I've never seen the school system adjust curriculum to the needs of their students. This isn't a reaction to older children enrolling in kindergarten - it's exactly the opposite. Parents see that kindergarten is no longer appropriate for four and five year olds and respond appropriately.
-sleeper
-sleeper
Ann D. My sentiments exactly. My summer kid is probably at grade level if you compare with kids the same age.
When I was little grade skipping was the norm, which I think is a mostly terrible idea now. I only started hearing the term red shirting as slang riffing off the college athletics practice(elementary club athletics are only age based- no advantage to holding a kid back in school), but unrelated in kind, and then only really after NCLB and its ratcheted up testing requirements.
-sleeper
But please no one panic. My son went through kindergarten last year, and was never remotely stressed. I never heard any playground gossip about kids being stressed, or saw much evidence. For those who were stressed, it could come as much from a complicated art project as from reading or numbers. Also from another direction entirely -- kids with complicated home lives being asked questions by their peers and feeling judged and wondering where they stand.
It's fine if parents red-shirt their kids. Parents should be trusted to make reasonable decisions, and the ones most to worry about are tiger parents who push too hard rather than the red shirters. Remember also that kids don't mature emotionally and socially at the exact same pace they mature intellectually. It's totally possible to have a boy who is socially ready for kindergarten but academically ready for first grade, and not unreasonable for a parent to wish the school might accommodate that.
-Keep K, K
Boy, isn't that the truth! one of my kids was an August boy -- we had assumed (even back in the 90s) that we should hold him back, because boys often mature a little more slowly and he was in fact a slow maturer -- BUT he was an early reader, and his K teacher said that he would be wildly bored if held back (socially immature and bored, both? NOT a great combo). So we didn't hold him back. He was smaller than every other boy in the class, and struggled socially (but was well matched academically). We wished there had been an academic option (almost like K+) where he could have gotten some challenge, while not being so far off the norm in terms of social maturity.
Ideally, schools should be able to form classrooms around children's needs (academic challenge, time to mature and learn to socialize, time and space to NOT focus on reading for kids who are naturally just late decoders, etc.) -- rather than forcing them to all conform to an aged norm that is mythical -- especially from birth to about 9 or 10, normal kids vary broadly in their rates of growth and their learning styles. By refusing to build a learning system that accommodates the variances, we do a lot of kids a great disservice.
FedupParent
My kid was a September birthday. He entered the system almost a year older than some of his classmates. Should I have pushed him up? I doubt it - full day K, even a gentle one, was exhausting for him. Our local school had a waitlist every year for K; the school let us know that kids being pushed ahead, even from the neighborhood, went to the very end of the waitlist (which seemed fair).
While I have never met a parent who said they held their kid back for academic or athletic reasons, I HAVE met parents who held their kids back because they were immature or not ready for a full day schedule. I'm inclined to agree with posters who say that red-shirting is a symptom of the educational system pushing stuff onto kids that's not age-appropriate.
-September pink shirt?
And this has what to do with this discussion? Don't put up cryptic remarks.
My son had an early September birthday and we held him back. We based that on size - he would have ended up being one of the youngest and smallest in his class (like forever.) As well, he was in a Montessori pre-K that we liked very much.
The general sense is that the Kindergarten shifts noted in the graphic you posted are undesirable, no? That the majority of parents do not agree with the 80% of teachers that believe K's should be taught to read and that we are more in-line with the 30% from the 1990s.
How are the teachers and their ideology not the very first line of attack on our children's ample play time and joyful engagement?
Clearly, everyone involved is responsible. But so often I hear teachers are made out to be victims of the system rather than held responsible for standing up for our children. "Just following orders" doesn't cut it with me anymore.
FedupParent
Is the goal to have a larger percentage of elementary school kids on antidepressants than the general population?
-- Dan Dempsey
Are you saying they are enacting reforms that they disagree with? What does that say about the integrity of the teachers?
I'm suggesting that teachers are responsible to fight FOR students and not to roll over to the whims of Common Core and Ed reform.
The CC/Ed reform types exploit the passive nature of teachers, the vulnerability of children, the exhaustion of parents, and the careerism of the leadership. We each have our part to play. I'm suggesting the data you posted here highlights ways the teachers need to examine ways their beliefs may contribute to education woes.
FedupParent
A great many teachers in the past 10 years have left for ethical reasons.... There isn't good data on exactly how many, because there isn't any data collected. The current teacher shortage says a lot though... The shortage in the next few years will be worse I suspect.
Consider this fact... teachers have a hard time even getting the law enforced.
Classroom Disruption RCW.
Read RCW 28A.600.020 see (2).
Teachers have little impact as individuals and the WEA, SEA are highly political in decision-making. Common Sense, the good of the children, and occasionally the good of members are ignored.
Take a look at WEA officials support for Common Core early on, without ever consulting membership. Look at SEA officials support for Valued Added Measures factored into teacher evaluations.
To think that Kindergarten teachers have much control over the kindergarten changes seems incorrect to me.
Remember the schools of Ed also train new teachers in what to believe.
-- Dan Dempsey
-HS Parent
He decided to do a book report on Obama. During the process, she learned that Obama went by the name "Barry".
Students were required to provide six supporting facts, which I think is a bit much for a first grader. They were also required to draw a photo. My nephew drew a strawberry because "Barry" and "berry" sounded similar to him.
He hates school.
Teachers should not be charged with regulating the political battles over education. In an ideal world, teachers would have the independence normally accorded to professionals; and would care about students as individuals; and would follow their own professional judgments about how to serve those students. And parents would have some choice of which teacher they think is a good fit for their children. And all the social engineering bureaucrats would be out of work. Never gonna happen, of course.
A lot of the anecdotal frustrations people mention in this thread come from the adamant refusal of the schools to do any sort of academic tracking and give students instruction appropriate for them as individuals. They only care about racial head-counting and social engineering.
p.s. it's too bad that anecdote's nephew hates school, but it's fine that he drew Obama as a berry. Kids learn by stretching themselves, and experimenting with whatever connections they see, and then talking about it. I am guessing the teacher had no problem with it. It's a great opening for the parent to start a conversation -- In what ways is Obama like or unlike a berry? Do you think he likes the nickname berry? Did you know the founder of Motown records was actually named Berry? In English, sometimes words sound the same but are spelled differently .. etc.
Would love to hear what you would do if you were told to do XYZ, would you really do ABC?
Come on, let us know. If you were a teacher, what would your classroom look like?
Are you saying if the right thing to do inconveniences you in your job, then you don't do it?
I served in Afghanistan. I was told to do XYZ and I did ABC.
If our 20 and 30 somethings can stand up with integrity amidst tremendous threat, then so can our teachers from the comforts of their own homes. It all boils down to what you believe your job is. If it's to collect a paycheck and be a corporate puppet, that's one thing. If it's to fight tooth and nail for the most vulnerable among us (let's say Kindergartners), then how one approaches one's job probably looks a bit different.
I know there are good teachers out there. My children, however, have had a number of not-so-good ones who appear to SUPPORT common core, ed reforms, cutting back recess, increasing discipline measures, and endorsing testing.
I do not support this blind-eye approach to a profession that deals with the education of very young children.
And so, yes, I hold teachers to the same standards I hold myself to in my own profession.
Our common foe (CC, ed reform, corporate interests, high stakes testing, etc) is exploiting the passive nature of our teachers. We can complain but it won't change anything. The ONLY way is to fight back. Instead, it appears teachers are fighting the parents because parental interests are often at odds with what teachers need to do to collect a paycheck.
Teachers may not have created the Kindergarten changes but they sure appear to be enforcing them with gusto, and for that they are responsible.
I don't buy it that teachers get to sit back and be educational Switzerland, do you?
FedupParent
I totally agree with your post above. However, much like the war in Afghanistan this war has gone on a long time. There are casualties. I assume that most of the people you fought with there are no longer still there. The attrition among teachers has always been high, but in these corporate reform districts and high poverty regions attrition has been really high. I too feel a strong sense to fight for what you outlined above, but in the end decided to move to a district that shared my same values rather than keep fighting an uphill battle. It wa ether that or leave teaching altogether. Do I feel good about that, sometimes no, but in the end I came to believe that life is too short to spend it miserable, stressed out and scapegoated for the obvious failure of poorly designed, executed and funded policies.
That's my two cents.
Chris T
Admittedly, if huge numbers of teachers in a district (or even in a school) all band together, things can be accomplished (like the dropping of MAP in high schools in part at least due to GHS's boycott of the test, etc.). This, however, is harder to do because the SEA (and the WEA, and the national union organizations) are generally weak and feckless. And that, ultimately, IS on teachers. Teachers vote for union representatives (or, it appears, they often can't be bothered to vote)-- and their apathy, inattentiveness, or outright cluelessness allows small groups of union hacks to maintain in powerful positions people who aren't interested in helping teachers push back against ed reform effectively and without losing their jobs.
While there are individual teachers totally on board with the bad parts of ed reform, it shocks me that anyone would point a finger at teachers in general. They are getting chewed up and spit out in this war. They are NOT the enemy.
There you have it. Jan has identified a major factor.
Many of the SEA, WEA, and NEA leaders manipulate the members rather than serve them.
-- Dan Dempsey
I was totally not aware that in the armed services you could go against what your boss or commanding officer tells you to do. Hmmm. And thank you for your service but I don't think a volunteer job in an organization like the armed forces really compares to being a teacher.
There is a national teacher group - BATS, for Bad-Ass Teachers - with state/city chapters that DO raise these issues and loudly.
"I served in Afghanistan. I was told to do XYZ and I did ABC."
I think they call that grounds for court-marshall, but whatever.
I have an idea for you Fed up: Charter schools! You may be right at home at a school where rules don't need to be followed. I hear there is one handing out gift cards if you enroll.
I agree that much red shirting now is due to increased emphasis on sitting still and doing academic work in K. Unfortunately, there is also pressure, on poorer families especially, to get the kids into school as soon as possible to reduce child care costs. So in some schools you have a huge range--underprivileged young kids and privileged old kids in the same classroom. No wonder so many poor kids get labelled as ADHD and medicated (or suspended.)
Ranting
"In short, an academically focused curriculum for preschoolers is highly uneducational. They don’t need scholastic skills; they need opportunities to be creative and productive and try new things, to grow self-regulation and communication skills, and even to develop a sense of humor. They need magic, and boredom, and room for their imagination, fantasies, and feelings."
Link:
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/what_preschoolers_really_need_from_grownups?utm_source=GG+Newsletter+Feb+24+2016&utm_campaign=GG+Newsletter+Feb+17+2016&utm_medium=email
Big hearts little minds