Friday Open Thread
The natural explanation for the lateness of this thread is, of course, discombobulation from too much turkey.
Spokane School District suspends more kindergarteners and first graders than high school students. From the Spokesman-Review:
KUOW had an interesting take on an election map - show your teenagers what a difference proportions in maps can make.
I wanted to give a shout-out, via the West Seattle Herald, to Shelby's Bistro and Ice Creamery which is hosting fundraisers over a series of nights to support schools in West Seattle including: Fairmount Park, Genesee Hill Elementary, Alki Elementary, Denny Middle School and West Seattle High School. Thanks for your support of public schools.
What's on your mind?
Spokane School District suspends more kindergarteners and first graders than high school students. From the Spokesman-Review:
There have been more kindergarten and first-grade suspensions – 171 – than there have been high school suspensions – 160 – in the first 54 days of the current school year. Districtwide, Spokane Public Schools has reduced suspensions.I read the explanations for this - more kindergartners than any other grade, kids aren't socialized yet, no intervention rooms in elementary schools and not enough teacher support - but that still seems odd to me that there would be that many little kids who "had" to be suspended.
Special education students continued to be suspended at a disproportionate rate. Although comprising only 12 percent of the district’s student population, those who are considered special education students receive 34 percent of all district suspensions.
KUOW had an interesting take on an election map - show your teenagers what a difference proportions in maps can make.
I wanted to give a shout-out, via the West Seattle Herald, to Shelby's Bistro and Ice Creamery which is hosting fundraisers over a series of nights to support schools in West Seattle including: Fairmount Park, Genesee Hill Elementary, Alki Elementary, Denny Middle School and West Seattle High School. Thanks for your support of public schools.
What's on your mind?
Comments
"Ingraham High School Solidarity Statement
Dear Ingraham Community,
Our student community has always sought to uphold the Ingraham values of respect, inclusivity, and acceptance. In light of recent events, we as Ingraham students have become more aware of the necessity to preserve and promote these ideals.
There are many people within our community who have cause to feel frightened and unsafe given our current political climate. As representatives of the student body we want to emphasize that Ingraham strives to be a place in which everyone can feel safe. Education and the academic world should be a domain that is safe for all.
The Seattle Public Schools non-discrimination policy states that SPS 'does not discriminate in any programs or activities on the basis of sex; race; creed; color; religion; ancestry; national origin; age; economic status; sexual orientation, including gender expression or identity; pregnancy; marital status; physical appearance; the presence of any sensory, mental or physical disability; honorably discharged veteran or military status; or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal.' We want to confirm our commitment to upholding this policy within our community. Everyone at Ingraham deserves respect, regardless of any of these factors. We want to enforce our disapproval of all discriminatory acts at Ingraham, and instead create an environment that supports and accepts differences.
Especially in this time of turmoil, there is a distinction between tolerance and true acceptance of others. We Ingraham students want to strive for the latter, and encourage individuals to embrace open-mindedness towards those who are a part of oppressed groups. We encourage the community to unite in support of one another and celebrate that which makes us different. Please join us in our efforts to make Ingraham a place where love will prevail.
Sincerely,
Ingraham Clubs and Organizations
Including:
Avalanche Literary Magazine
Associated Student Body
Black Student Union
Boys Swim
Cheer
Chinese Club
Cross Country
Debate Club
Environmental Club
Feminism Club
Gender-Sexuality Alliance
Girl’s Basketball
Girl’s Soccer
Girl’s Swim
Girls Who Code
Hiking Club
Human Rights Club
Jewish Club
Junior State of America
Latino Club
Math Engineering Science Achievement Club
Native American Club
National Honor Society
Polish Club
Project Unify
Rocket Club
UNICEF Club"
HV
What other loose ends are on the table?
Big Decisions
http://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/guest-essay-end-separate-classes-for-highly-capable-students-at-ingraham-high/
-ABC
FWIW
My student came from non-HCC middle school to do the IBx path at Ingraham & had classmates from the gen ed programs at Eckstein & Whitman on that IBx path too. But at least half the group in each class was gen ed track IB students. In some cases gen ed students are ahead of HCC students like in foreign language classes when the student attended John Stanford Elementary. It is not as segregated as Mr. Truax made it sound. Evidently he has a student at Ingraham, but I am not sure he understands the program.
-HS Parent
-takes gall
There are more "loose ends" as you put it. Here are just a few.
The entire Greenlake / BF Day/ West Woodland boundaries need to be addressed. BF Day is under enrolled and the two neighboring schools are over enrolled. The language immersion schools will always cause challenges for the adjacent schools.
A timeline for boundaries for Lincoln is truly critical. Until there are boundaries, the school has no constituents and there is no way for students and families to make adequate plans for students to graduate.
A plan for Ingraham is also critical. Ingraham is getting a permanent addition in 2019. However, portables can be added before then as the campus has ample space. There needs to be a transition plan for 2017 and 2018 before Lincoln comes online and the bulk of that transition plan will need to fall on Ingraham as it will be nearly impossible for either Ballard or Roosevelt to add more students. That said, Ingraham needs a plan as it takes times to hire qualified IB teachers and IB is what will draw students away from over-crowded Ballard and Roosevelt.
He writes: In Seattle, unfortunately, our public high schools are too segregated. Much of this comes from neighborhood patterns and tracking in our schools. Both of these problems are hard to solve. Wrong. Tracking in our schools is NOT one of the causes of segregation in our schools. In the absence of tracking programs, our schools would be MORE segregated. Would Garfield be more diverse if it weren't an HCC pathway? How about Washington Middle School? Even Lincoln Elementary is more diverse than many of the neighborhood schools that feed into it. Yes, our neighborhood patterns are one factor in the segregation we see. The second factor is our district's neighborhood-based school assignment plan, NOT our highly capable programs. But, of course, that reality doesn't fit his agenda.
IBX is a special track for these advanced learning students. This program is detrimental to the learning of both IBX and non-IBX students. Wrong again. IBX and IB students are in the same classes together. IBX students are just doing them a year earlier, because they completed the prerequisites a year earlier. They don't get special, segregated IBX classes. They simply follow a different timeline. But again, that reality doesn't fit his agenda.
Until six or so years ago, Garfield High School was the magnet school for students in the district’s HCC program. Uh, Garfield is STILL the HCC program pathway high school, the default school for most HCC students. Does he not even know that simple fact? Sheesh.
Garfield has struggled with racial tensions since the program started. The demographics of HCC is disproportionately wealthy and white. Wait a minute. So his argument is that Garfield has struggled with racial tensions since disproportionately white and "wealthy" HCC students started being sent there--which suggests it would be better in the absence of those rich white brats--while at the same time he's complaining about the racial segregation in our high schools? That doesn't make any sense. But I'm sure whatever it is, it's the HCC students who are to blame--either by being there, or not being there, or being the wrong color or having the wrong parents, right?
At Ingraham, HCC students spend part of the school day in their own classes while some students are right next door doing the same curriculum using the same texts and at times, learning from the same teachers. Well gosh, that does sound unfair. Too bad it's completely FALSE. As noted above, HCC students in the IBX track take IB classes with IB and IBX students both. They aren't separate classes, and IB students are not all HC-identified students. But again, that reality doesn't fit his agenda.
(continued)
Students test into HCC as early as six years old by taking a test that’s essentially an IQ test. Once they’re in, there are no performance requirements for staying in. That's not true at all. Students don't have to repeat IQ type tests to remain in the program, but they ARE routinely reassessed. Ever hear of state tests? Or report cards? Most HCC students score 4 (exceeds standard) on the state tests, and to the extent that some only score a 3 (at standard) there are many likely explanations, such as diagnosed/undiagnosed learning disabilities (common in gifted students) or poor HCC instructional programming. Students who continue to underperform on report cards will be counseled out of the program if their situation warrants it. They DO need to continue to perform to stay in the program. Perhaps MR. Truax doesn't know this because there isn't an HCC "program" at Garfield to "stay in." There are just classes, open to all students.
There is no academic argument to segregate a school based on an IQ test. Would the orchestra teacher at Ingraham be justified giving the #1 violin seat to a student based off a test they took when they were six? The universal answer to that would be no. So why are we doing this in academic subjects? Seriously? Class placement is NOT based on tests given at age six. They are based on classes taken the prior year (i.e., you take the next one in the series), or based on standardized tests taken the prior year (i.e., students newly testing into the program at whatever grade level jump into the level of their HCC cohort, for the most part. They may face a big jump and need to overcome a large gap based on material they skip, but they are mostly up for the task).
(continued)
Our board and district administrators struggle with what they term the “achievement gap.” Multiple district goals are aimed at reducing this gap. Yet, this same board and administration are intentionally creating policies that lead to racial separation at Ingraham High. They do so while scratching their heads wondering why we can’t close what is really an opportunity gap. A simple first step would be to eliminate the IBX program at Ingraham and allow the school to be One Ingraham. Eliminating the IBX program would have ZERO effect on the opportunity gap, and ZERO effect on the racial separation at Ingraham. For one, many HCC students are opting for the IB timeline rather than the IBX timeline already. Two, IB and IBX classes are already integrated. And three, denying opportunities for acceleration to those who are ready for acceleration does not suddenly make them less "highly capable", nor does it make the school more racially integrated. I'm really scratching my head trying to figure out what exactly he thinks would change if they didn't offer an IBX option.
Not only are his "facts" wrong, but there is no logic behind Mr. Truax's argument. On one hand he's arguing that HCC students really aren't so gifted after all, while on the other he's arguing that having a program for them contributes to the achievement gap. Huh?
People like Mr. Truax have very limited understanding of the needs of highly gifted children, and it's a shame that so many will suffer as ignorant ideas like his take hold in SPS. There seems to be an unwillingness to acknowledge the role of socioeconomic factors in the development of intellectual giftedness, while simultaneously implying that since these students got this way through no effort of their own (e.g., they were born to "wealthy" white parents), they are somehow undeserving of an appropriate education--they didn't earn it. Teachers like Mr. Truax would rather deny learning opportunities to gifted kids in the hope that other will then catch up, or at least that things will at least look more equal on paper. What he doesn't understand is that most highly capable or high-IQ students will continue to be highly capable and high-IQ regardless, and the achievement gap will persist. The achievement gap is measured based on things like graduation rate and scoring at least at grade level on state tests. Highly capable students do NOT stop being highly capable just because you take away their learning opportunities. They will still score high, and they will still graduate at higher rates.
If Mr. Truax really wants to eliminate the achievement gap, he should focus his efforts elsewhere. The achievement gap is already present at kindergarten entry, and it persists. We need to more to reduce/eliminate the gap in K readiness, and we need to do more to close that gap in the early years. We need extensive supports for struggling students throughout all grades if we want to close the gaps, and we need to provide sufficient resources to teachers and support staff so they can do that. Denying opportunities to a small segment of high performing students is not the way to close the gap. Not only is immoral to intentionally stymie the education of one group in order to let the others catch up, it's also not going to work.
Face it
Does IHS have ample space while the building is under construction (over the next two years, when the space is most needed)? The construction will take staging space for construction trailers, equipment, etc.
A long term plan for high school HC is needed. Garfield cannot handled the growing HC enrollment and IB is an option for a reason. If the message is that HC students are not welcome in the very schools that are supposed to serve them, RHS and BHS HC students will increasingly choose their high performing neighborhood schools, though with the unknown boundaries and splits, it's not so straightforward.
-another parent
I am getting very tired of individuals, especially those in the SPS, stating "facts" definitively that are completely false. These are individuals that are supposedly training our children to do research and cite their references? Or shall we just tell children that you can say literally anything you want just so long as you do it definitively enough to convince others that you are right. If you do that, you WIN. I think this attitude also represents the business philosophy of TRUMPucation. And this is a history teacher no less. I don't think, based on his own erroneous comments, that Mr. Truax possess any knowledge base on the IB program at Ingraham or any other IB school. I am very sorry to see this person teaching SPS students.
-IngrahamIBParent
Well, it is if that's the narrative you choose to put out there.
Per the portables report presented to the capacity committee, Ingraham can take at least six portable during construction. My concern is that hiring qualified staff is a bigger issue than the physical space. While a portable can be placed and permitted fairly quickly (a few months), hiring qualified IB teachers can not be done at the last minute.
"Again, it is interesting that the Times has not one but two education op-eds on Advanced Learning"
I share Melissa's sentiments.
Thanks to Face it and other parents that have commented.
I've read Truax's piece, Seattle Times comment section and blog comments. I question Mr. Truax's "facts". As well, I would appreciate actual data.
open ears
We also do ability grouping in school sports.
-mouser
-wondering
Face it
Charlie tried to put a positive spin on the Honors for All thing by buying the story that they'll be thoroughly evaluating the success of this approach, but I'm not falling for it. Does anyone really think they will do a rigorous, meaningful evaluation of the impact this has on different types of students? Not only do they likely not have the capacity to conduct such a study (and they've never identified their "success" outcome measures in the first place), but they can't really do it before time to make a decision on next year. I fully expect they'll instead just use their own impressions that it's all going "great" to expand the effort schoolwide. They'll use Ms. Burris' visit as further justification, even though what they implemented at GHS in NO WAY resembles what they did in Rockville Centre.
Face it
The district describes the program at Garfield as an accelerated AP pathway. Who is responsible for ensuring the school is actually offering that?
Will Garfield bring in anyone that offers a different perspective in relation to advanced learners?? I doubt it. Very one sided presentation.
One director has been asking for the board to provide evidence that advanced learners needs are being met. What do we get? Crickets.
-speculatin'
Which makes me reiterate: ANYONE can opt in to honors classes in high school. There is no tracking anyway.
Eighth grade
Based on the Roosevelt tour years ago, core science classes do not have separate honors classes, but they sounded like they were taught to a pretty high standard (perhaps even more comprehensive than some "honors" classes at other schools.) In my child's "honors" Chemistry class (not Roosevelt), students sometimes need to take the role of teacher because the teacher cannot explain some concepts. I suppose that works as long as you have only advanced students in the class. It's SPS. It varies by teacher and school. There does not seem to be any standard. Texts vary. Content coverage varies.
-anything goes
Wish we'd gone with Hale.
Hindsight
My kid was very happy at Hale and really enjoyed the diversity and inclusivity. My kid is now doing great at UO and feels like Hale provided good preparation for college, especially in math. My kid was not HCC though.
HP
Face it
HP
AP is about learning facts, practicing, memorizing, to get the right answer. The humanities & social science classes are like survey courses in college & math is like Kumon. My kid felt like very little learning or thinking happened and curiosity had no place at all.
Younger kid did IBx, higher quality teaching & curriculum with exception of music & Spanish.
-HS Parent
Honestly, I'd rather my child have three years of engaging classes and graduate early than four years of the typical high school curriculum in blended honors classes.
Eighth Grade,
I fully agree with Hindsight's first paragraph, couldn't disagree more with the second.
Roosevelt isn't a great building for HCC kids that really need to be challenged, and yes, not much diversity. But at least there are a wide variety of AP courses and the overall level of learning, engagement and challenge is higher than most high schools.
Hale, on the other hand, is all about leveling the playing field for everyone. That may work fine for many kids, but if you have a true HCC outlier that needs rigor and challenge, Hale isn't likely to be a good fit. Most HCC kids that find themselves at Hale end up taking lots of Running Start classes.
Neither school will offer your kid a lot of gifted peers, which may or may not be critical for him/her. As always, it depends a lot on your kid. Good luck.
-HS Parent
DisAPPointed
DisAPPointed
Different Strokes