Disqus

Tuesday, October 06, 2009

SAP - Elementary Schools

Open Thread

64 comments:

WallingfordMom said...

I got a copy of the maps. Looks like they added McDonald and Sand Point, as expected. The McDonald school cuts into the JSIS, BF Day, and Greenlake reference areas.

Emily M. Bender said...

Can you describe the area for McDonald? Current JSIS family wants to know!!

WallingfordMom said...

Everything North of 45th from Wallingford Ave (I think, maps are hard to read) to UW is assigned McDonald.

Emily M. Bender said...

Thanks.

WallingfordMom said...

I just noticed that Viewlands is also listed as being reopened. There is a note on the bottom of the map that states the schools would need to be reopened between 2010 and 2012

Robert said...

Anyone have the boundaries on the Lowell and Stevens areas?

Bird said...

There is a note on the bottom of the map that states the schools would need to be reopened between 2010 and 2012

When does the SAP go into effect? Next fall? What's the provision for students between then and when these schools open? Are there "temporary' assignment maps for the interim?

Unknown said...

can you please tell me where the sand point/view ridge boundary falls? tia!

i wonder if someone might be able to scan the copies of maps out already and post?

TechyMom said...

Where are the Madrona lines? Is it an option school or an attendance-area school?

zb said...

So is the "links to the maps will be posted after the workshop starts at 4PM" supposed to mean at some random time after 4 PM? Perhaps next year?

I find this withholding of information, where some get access and others not to be incredibly frustrating.

WallingfordMom said...

I went to Zoom to get the maps after the other poster mentioned they were there. It is very close to my son's school, so I was able to literally "zoom" in to grab it. The woman who worked there had no idea where the maps came from. She thought it was an insert from the Parent Map mag.

Lowell/Stevens -- It looks like it is 14th to the N/S and the street adjacent to Volunteer park running E/W. Not all the boundries on the map are labeled.

SP/VW -- Looks like 65th St. It jogs over at one point before Magnuson up to 70th, but I don't know the street.

Madrona -- Not listed as an option school. Cherry to 23rd, and then
23rd, to (I think) Denny.

whittier07 said...

Sorry ... I can't leave to get a map - Whittier boundaries? Thanks!

Robin Pierce said...

FYI - PCC in View Ridge also has copies of the maps in the newspaper section.

Bird said...

Maps!

http://www.seattleschools.org/area/boundarymaps/index.dxml

TechyMom said...

The maps are up at http://www.seattleschools.org/area/boundarymaps/index.dxml

TechyMom said...

We lucked out. McGilvra by 1 block. Even though we'll probably end up staying at Lowell, it's nice to have the option. Washington and Garfield, as expected.

It also looks like Montlake is going to be VERY full.

Robert said...

Jessica,

Do you think it might be Interlaken park the current boundary for Stevens and Lowell walk areas (a squigly line)? And what is the e/w south boundary?

zb said...

I believe the jog in View Ridge' area is 55th. Am wondering when these new schools (Sand Point)? will open.

Central Mom said...

forget the maps. use the new tool posted on the homepage and type in your address. gives all the schools that will feed into a middle school and you'll also get your high school too. pretty much all of capitol hill and eastlake get washington and garfield.

where are the walkzones for the alt schools. can't see em.

Robert said...

Yeah actually the servers seem to be slammed now as well.

I did get a peek and for Lowell/Stevens it is Interlaken park on the north and I believe it was cherry on the south.

Not too surprising.

TechyMom said...

One thing that did surprise me was that downtown goes to Hay. I was expecting it to be split between Lowell and Gazert.

zb said...

Sand Point slated to open for 2010!

zb said...

I don't like the variability in afterschool programs. Why do some schools have on-site after school programs, while others bus the children elsewhere. Notable, for example, for Wedgwood's program at Ravenna community center. I guess it might work, but after school programs is another inconsistency among schools that becomes more of an issue when the schools are assigned

TechyMom said...

Hey, and doesn't Muir have Spectrum? That means there are now 2 Spectrum programs in the Washington zone (is that the right word?), along with both APP programs. Interesting...

Robert said...

zb you might review Kay S-B as a school board candidate... That is something that she says she would like to sort out as well.

Phernie said...

McDonald's boundary also cuts into Bryant's reference area.

So what happens to my incoming (2010) kindergartner if the school we're assigned to doesn't open until 2012?! No interim school has been identified. I won't know whether she'll be grandfathered to her sibling's school until the board deals with implementation later on. Is my child "school-less"?

Renee said...

I and other parents in Pinehurst are very excited that the Northgate Elementary boundary stops at I-5 and families who had been assigned to Northgate are assigned to Olympic View. This makes a lot more sense in terms of community and logistics.

Also, the updated Sacajawea boundaries make sense as well for similar reasons. This is great news!

amanda said...

Can anyone tell me the street boundary in the north for Adams?

Bruce Taylor said...

Jaybird -- McDonald will be at Lincoln HS until the McDonald building can be brought up to snuff.

So much for the idea of bringing Lincoln online as a comprehensive high school serving QA/Magnolia.

GreyWatch said...

amanda - the maps are hard to read, but looks like adams cutoff is 70th, possibly 75th.

amanda said...

GreyWatch-thanks. I'm at 73rd! Entered address and we come up with Adams-although Loyal Heights is much closer (and not ACROSS 65th!)

Dorothy Neville said...

I'd get Sandpoint and it says it will open in Fall 2010. What about the sprinkler system? What if the levy fails?

whittier07 said...

Even though I have followed this process closely, I'm still surprised by how much our elementary school boundary changed ... although it's hard to read the exact streets, it looks like Whittier is losing the about 1/3 of its current SW boundary and adding about 1/3 capacity north & east of the school ... the north boundary is all the way up to Holman!

Curious to hear about other big changes ...

Bird said...

So is there a plan for how to fill these new elementaries?

As I understand it, the SAP leaves students in their current school and only applies to incoming students. Doesn't the NE currently need the full use of that Sandpoint capacity?

I think it would make sense to place high demand programs in these new schools to encourage families to switch over. It seems to me a like an international school in Sandpoint would be a good fit and would encourage families to move in. I don't live in that cluster. Anyone have any idea how that would be received?

MacDonald won't be a good place for an international school because of its proximity to JSIS, but I take it that there is Spectrum demand that is unfulfilled do to limited space. I think a Spectrum program would be a good fit there.

I don't know enough about the situation up around Viewlands to comment. Does the district need the full capacity of that school immediately, or is re-opening appropriately far-sighted?

I also don't know what to say about Old Hay if it has some alternative designation in the plan.

Of course, I wonder how establishing high demand programs in conjunction with opening four new schools would fly politically, given the disproportionate impact of the recent closures on the south end.

I would very much hope that as part of the new SAP the district would be working very actively to make sure that all parts of the district have access to popular programs.

Even ALO (which may be of marginal value) needs to be rolled out across all schools in the district for equity.

Back when people supposedly could "chose" schools, the district had some measure of excuse for the inequitable distribution of programs. Now with assigned schools, there is no excuse.

Elizabeth W said...

On 10/6/09 at 5:04 PM zb said...

I don't like the variability in afterschool programs. Why do some schools have on-site after school programs, while others bus the children elsewhere. Notable, for example, for Wedgwood's program at Ravenna community center.

...

Wedgwood and Thornton Creek both have on-site after school programs ("Kids Time") which are administered by the Ravenna Eckstein community center. There may be additional options off site, but there is on site care at Wedgwood (though not enough to meet demand).

-- Elizabeth

another mom said...

There are pdf documents now up on the website. And unless I read them incorrectly, it looks as if the elementary Spectrum Program is not included in the plan and Advanced Learning opportunities will be offered at all elementaries. I did see it mentioned for the middle schools. Someone go and read and correct me if I have misspoken here.

another mom said...

I think I misinterpreted what is written about Spectrum. But I would appreciate it if someone would read the docs.

steve in west seattle said...

I just looked at West Seattle, and they moved what used to be Cooper's area from Sanislo to Lafayette. It's weird, the 2 areas are non-contiguous, unless you go through the Steel Plant.

I want to know how many kids are in the new Lafayette area? Are there any numbers associated with the maps?

Schmitz Park tightens up and squares off, Alki picks-up a little strip of land South of Alaska St and a triangle of land north of SP now split between SP and Lafayette. Arbor Heights, Gatewood, West Seattle Elementary and Roxhill now meet at 4 corners divided by 35th Ave and Thistle. That moves a chunk from Gatewood to Arbor Heights. It has a very small area for Roxhill. I'm not sure they can fill the school.

Steve

sixwrens said...

The reports are now posted. See the maps link: www.seattleschools.org/area/newassign/maps.html

Regarding new elementary schools, it provides a timeline for new schools:

Projected enrollment growth can be accommodated by bringing the following buildings on line:
• For 2010 school year: Sand Point
• For 2011 school year: Viewlands, Old Hay, Rainier View
• For 2012 school year: McDonald

There is a short section on transition planing, which states:
The information in this document, including assignment of students to attendance area boundaries, describes the “future state” at full implementation.

The report specifically puts off a decision about incoming K siblings.

sixwrens said...

Also, a timeline for getting the transition plan together:

Open Enrollment for 2010-11 assignments is scheduled for March 2010.

So any transition plan will need to be approved and in place before then.

Unknown said...

steve in west seattle: on the website there are documents in addition to the school maps. One of them (called Appendix C: Assumptions and Functional Capacity) has some numbers (and a fair amount of information on how they built their calculations). Devils are always in details, of course, and the real issue may be whether their starting numbers will "hold up," given either district error (they have been wrong in the past) or changes in attendance patterns that are not correctly captured by or reflected in the assumptions (i.e., private school families returning because they like their assigned attendance schools, different numbers of kids selecting option schools or K-8s than what they assume, etc.).

SolvayGirl said...

"Open Enrollment for 2010-11 assignments is scheduled for March 2010."

In my opinion, that's a bad move on the District's part. If assignments are as late as they were this year, a number of families who are "on the cusp" of being able to get into a school they want will find themselves needing to commit to a private school before they know their public assignment.

SPS mom said...

I believe the school levy vote is in Feb, so technically, the open enrollment has to be after the vote. Assuming the levy is approved, the designated schools can be reopened and the new SAP can be put in place. And if the levy fails?

Unknown said...

Does anyone have any insight into Appendix F - student density? They show a high density area where Wilson-Pacific is and it looks like they have moved the Bagley boundary to include it.
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/newassign/NSAP_ProposedBoundaries_Appendix_F.pdf
Look at page 2.
That must be a glitch in their data, right?

Melissa Westbrook said...

If the levy fails. Well, now SPS Mom, that is quite a dilemma. If it failed, they could not reopen the closed schools.

Something the district should be mindful of.

zella917 said...

In response to Erin's comment, I live very near Wilson-Pacific and so I know that there are several apartment buildings, townhouses, etc. in the area around this old school. Maybe this would explain the density?

Elizabeth W said...

Other than the fact that I don't live near Wilson Pacific, I agree with zella915. A quick trip to the Google Maps satellite view should be enough to convince most folks that the "hot spot" in appendix F is real.

Renee said...

Thank you for pointing out the equity details. This is very exciting. I have long hoped to see a plan for SPS that is more equitable. And, this is certainly and amazing step in that direction.

Unknown said...

Re Appendix F - On the other thread MoneyPenny said she asked and that Wilson Pacific is the proxy address they give homeless students and those who require address confidentiality. I live near there too, and while there are lots of townhouses, the hot spot is directly over Wil-Pac and there are not that many kids in this neighborhood.
I'm concerned there are big flaws in all that data. If they couldn't adjust attendance and demographics for their own proxy address, what else did they miss?

Charlie Mas said...

Each middle school service area must have at least one Spectrum program.

It could be West Seattle for Denny, but almost any other school in the area would be better. It is Lafayette for Madison, Wing Luke for Aki Kurose, Muir and Leschi (maybe just Muir in future) for Washington, Lawton for McClure, Whittier and Broadview-Thomson for Whitman, and Wedgwood, Jane Addams, and View Ridge for Eckstein. There is no elementary Spectrum program in the the Mercer service area. So who is going to get it? And, once that school is identified, won't the attendance area have to be adjusted smaller?

Wouldn't it be easier to just move the line so Muir is in the Mercer service area?

nacmom said...

bird at 7:01

The NE would swarm any immersion program. we've been suggesting it for years! of course, all such programs should be option schools, to allow anyone equal access....but I know it would be a huge draw. was requested/considered for jane addams, but not executed upon for lack of time/funding. qualified staff are harder to find. same issue will apply for SP i would guess. still no reason not to do it, just phase it in over time. Could still be done for JA!! better late than never.

NE definitely needs more seats, but as JA for example, new schools take time to fill. unlikey upper grade kids will jump to SP either.

if intl school, then they should go to hamilton...

Elizabeth W said...

On 10/6/09 at 10:47 PM Erin said...

Re Appendix F - On the other thread MoneyPenny said she asked and that Wilson Pacific is the proxy address they give homeless students and those who require address confidentiality. I live near there too, and while there are lots of townhouses, the hot spot is directly over Wil-Pac and there are not that many kids in this neighborhood.

...

I can certainly see why this information would raise questions, but...

Take a look at City of Seattle's population density map (http://www.cityofseattle.net/dpd/cms/groups/pan/@pan/documents/web_informational/dpds_006728.pdf).

It shows that census tract 13, which overlays the "hot spot" in the new Daniel Bagley reference area, is not sparsely populated compared to the rest of the area North of the ship canal.

At the U.S. Census Bureau's web site (http://factfinder.census.gov), you can explore the census tract maps for 2000, and discover that tract 13 has:

* slightly more than the average proportion of children under 5 years old (4.8% vs the city's average of 4.7%), and

* is second only to the University District (tract 53.01) in percent of families in poverty.

To me, this says that there are plenty of children there and most of them are not going to have options other than public school.

zb said...

Thanks for the update on the afterschool programs. They're still variable, but I was basing my assumptions on who runs the program in the link, not where it is. I do basically think that every elementary should have on site child care if we're moving away from a choice model, though.

Lynne Cohee said...

I live in the teeny tiny area (basically Hawthorne Hills and a bit of View Ridge) carved out for Sand Point. Doesn't affect me personally because my kids are older, but it's hard to figure out how this small geographic area has a sufficient population to support an elementary school, even in the long term. The neighborhood is a real mix of families with young kids, teens, and older couples with grown kids. I'm skeptical as to whether opening the school will significantly relieve pressure on the other northeast elementary schools. Does anyone have any idea how it will work in practice to open a new elementary school? Will the school have nothing but kindergartners next year? I would predict a fair number of kindergarten families choosing Assumption and Villa over that scenario, since those are already popular private school options in the area. And I can't see families with older kids choosing to move their kids to SP.

Anonymous said...

So Bagley is going from 15% free/reduced lunch kids to 50%? That is a huge change. Did the school district talk about that much??

Anonymous said...

I would caution against relying too heavily on 2000 census numbers to gauge where children currently reside. There was a little baby boom around 2002-2004, and perhaps beyond, that has created the current capacity crisis at least here in the NE. And none of these kids are in the 2000 census numbers.

We bought a house in Bryant in 2001. At that time, there were 8 children on the block. Today, there are 20! And this is just one block! Most of these families are in public schools or will be within another year or two. (Of course, why SPS didn't see all of this coming 2 years ago when my daughter's cohort entered K is another story).

Elizabeth W said...

On 10/7/09 at 9:45 AM lak367 said...

I would caution against relying too heavily on 2000 census numbers to gauge where children currently reside.

...

Just to be clear -- I'm not suggesting that the 2000 census data is the best data to use. I hope the district has made use of more recent data.

That said, the 2000 Census data is freely available to anyone with a fast enough internet connection and does provide evidence supporting the claim that a concentration of SPS students lives in the area in question.

I understand that trust in the district is very low for many people. I do find this an understandable reaction to past events. However, I also think that many of the stories folks are telling each other here are trending dangerously toward rumor fodder. This was my attempt to inject an independently verifiable "reality check" into the debate.

Unknown said...

Charlie, does the Hamilton area have a Spectrum elementary?

steve in west seattle said...

Thanks Jan for mentioning the supporting documents. I'd missed the link and there is a lot of data there. Unfortunately it's not as specific as I would like.

I think it's good they have tried to reduced the inequity at the different schools in West Seattle. I'm concerned about the large increase of FRL students at Sanislo. It will be pushed way over 50% if the number are correct. That is very hard to overcome.

I still don't trust the demographic projections. They were 30% low in their Kindergarten projections for 2 of the 4 elementary schools in West Seattle North this year and had to add classrooms after the enrollment numbers came in. I think they are using the same data and assumptions for these numbers.

h2o girl said...

Scott - in the "Proposed Attendance Areas Boundaries Report" (if I'm reading it correctly) it says the Hamilton service area has no Spectrum school in 2009, but B.F. Day will have Spectrum by 2015. It's on page 29. Interesting.

Unknown said...

Thanks, h2o girl - that's what I saw as well. So just for the record - there's _no Spectrum_ school for the new Hamilton district (as of yet). So Spectrum-eligible kids in this (and other) districts will... what? Be allowed to apply to the Eckstein schools? Have no choice but local ALO? Or...?

Bird said...

I think a Spectrum program should be established at the new MacDonald school. It would provide the needed access and help fill out the upper grades of the school more quickly.

Phernie said...

I was talking with another parent this morning, and we brainstormed an idea to make McDonald Elementary and John Stanford 2 halves of the same whole, meaning one could be a K-2 school and one a 3-5 school. They could be linked together as a community, and both would feed into Hamilton.

Infrastructure already exists at John Stanford. There is already an active PTSA, after-school programs, and school fundraisers, etc. All of this would not need to be reinvented for McDonald. Teachers and a curriculum are already there, and would just need to be expanded. Even the bus routes could be coordinated; maybe start times could be staggered by 10 or 15 minutes to accommodate this.

Parents all over the city clamor for international programs. This would give an enormous appeal to those of us already happy with our current school assignment. It would solve the problem of lack of capacity in north Seattle while also giving families another desirable international school--and they wouldn't need to reinvent the wheel, just expand on an existing successful program.

Eric A. said...

Hi - please check out the site I just put up yesterday, http://ssthing.org. I have tried to create an accessible tool for viewing Seattle elementary schools on the map and reviewing their performance and demographic data. I hope the tool will be useful to parents considering where to locate or just checking up on their neighborhood schools. Send feedback, see the about page for contact info.