Tuesday Open Thread

That was a big turnout for students who walked out of class to protest the presidential elections results.  One student told me, "We're the new generation and we'll decide next time who will be president."  I told him that was great but 100 million people didn't bother to vote so how will he get young people to vote?  He said he thought the next four years would motivate them.  So we shall see.

Who's on the short list for Secretary of Education under Trump? From the NY Times:

Dr. Ben Carson -  Former neurosurgeon and 2016 presidential candidate
Williamson M. Evers  - Education expert at the Hoover Institution, a think tank
The Atlantic asks a good question - Is Trump's Victory the Jump-Start Civics Education Needed?
The Founders wanted voters to be educated so they could discern serious leaders of high character from con men who do not have the nation’s interests at heart. Beyond that, public education in the United States was also meant to instill a love of liberal democracy: a respect for the separation of powers, for a free press and free religious exercise, and for the rights of political minorities.
Yet in recent years, democracy has been given short shrift in American public schooling in two important respects: the curriculum that is explicitly taught to students does not place democratic values at the center, and the “hidden” curriculum of what students observe on a daily basis no longer reinforces the importance of democracy. The failure of schools to model democracy for students is critical, as the Rochester teachers’ union leader Adam Urbanski has noted, because “You cannot teach what you do not model.”
A large body of research finds that integrated schools can reduce prejudice and racism that stems from ignorance and lack of personal contact. As Thurgood Marshall noted in one case, “Unless our children begin to learn together, there is little hope that our people will ever learn to live together.”
FYI, Mayor Murray is to speak at the Hamilton PTA meeting tomorrow night at 7 pm.  I would like to hear what the Mayor has to say but there is a fairly important School Board meeting tomorrow with the vote on Growth Boundaries.  I would like to ask the Mayor if his pledge at the Education Summit to end homelessness for Seattle children by the end of this year will be a reality.
Please join us to hear about Mayor Murray's Education Summit that occurred earlier this year, and talk about the City’s partnership with Seattle Public Schools. Also, he wants to hear from parents about general issues and have a good dialogue with the Hamilton community. All are welcome!
What's on your mind?

Update: I see that the Mayor's Education Summit Advisory committee will be meeting for a press conference on their recommendations at Garfield on Wednesday, the 16th, from 10-11 am. 


Anonymous said…

For the record this is what the ACLU feels is protected speech or not in public school classrooms

Public school teachers — like all American citizens — are afforded free speech rights, but there are notable limitations, according to the American Civil Liberties Union.

“What you say or communicate inside the classroom is considered speech on behalf of the school district and therefore will not be entitled to much protection,” the ACLU notes. “Certain types of speech outside the school might also not be protected if the school can show that your speech created a substantial adverse impact on school functioning.”

So while you applaud walkouts, black lives matter day and the rest realize the jeopardy you place yourself professionally. Damned if you damned if you don't.

I said before that you must teach in context of history using only district approved materials, you must have permission via the district and your Administrator to go beyond the scope and scale of the parameters you are given. What you do on your own time is that. But that said Teachers have lost jobs because of Facebook posts and the like.

I believe the policy of shutting up is the best policy and teach children the appropriate analytical skils in which they can come to their own conclusions..

- SPS Oldster
Good points, SPS Oldster. A Supreme Court ruling comes to mind when there was an event outside a school (across the street, actually - it was the Olympic torch relay) and some kid had a sign "Bong Hits 4 Jesus." He was suspended and his parents challenged that.


"Chief Justice Roberts, writing for the majority, concluded that the school officials did not violate the First Amendment. To do so, he made three legal determinations: first, that "school speech" doctrine should apply because Frederick's speech occurred "at a school event"; second, that the speech was "reasonably viewed as promoting illegal drug use"; and third, that a principal may legally restrict that speech—based on the three existing First Amendment school speech precedents, other Constitutional jurisprudence relating to schools, and a school's "important, indeed, perhaps compelling interest" in deterring drug use by students.

One scholar noted that "by its plain language, Morse's holding is narrow in that it expressly applies only to student speech promoting illegal drug use."[3] She adds, however, that courts could nonetheless apply it to other student speech that, like speech encouraging illegal drug use, similarly undermines schools' educational missions or threatens students' safety. "Further, Morse arguably permits viewpoint discrimination of purely political speech whenever that speech mentions illegal drugs—a result seemingly at odds with the First Amendment."[3]"

However, that was a school-sponsored event. I would think if students were at a non-school protest on non-school grounds that the student would not have been suspended for the sign (but maybe suspended for cutting class.)
Ballard Resident said…
There is a lot of activity on Soup for Teachers.

The principal of Ballard high school sent an e-mail to families and some on Soup for Teachers are being extremely critical for Wynkoop's message:

"More importantly, I want students to think about why they might choose to walkout. I support your right to protest appropriately, but I challenge you to think about how you can make an actual difference instead of just skipping school this afternoon.
My child attends"

My child attends Ballard High. He informed me that some students just want to skip class. Perhaps individuals on Soup for Teachers don't quite understand the complete situation.

Students have a half day of school on Friday. My child would have preferred to protest on Friday and not miss class.

Mud slinging gets old- especially if individuals are not directly connected to the situation.
Anonymous said…
There is not a not a half day on Friday, do you mean the early dismissal on Wednesday? -TeacherMom
Lynn said…
I saw these notes on Nova in the minutes of the October Curriculum and Instruction Policy Committee:

He noted that the population has changed quite a bit in the last ten years. Principal Perry provided an example that 50% of students are transfer students now, who are behind in credits and don’t feel like the other schools have options for them to succeed. He also noted that the students are coming to Nova due to anxiety, mental health reasons, not feeling safe at other school environments, or needing a different kind of learning experience. Principal Perry noted that they typically have 344 students enrolled, and now their enrollment is 331. He noted an issue with enrollment where dates were incorrectly listed for transfer students. Principal Perry noted that at this point, according to a survey, 45% of students identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered and queer (LGBTQ), and 27% identify as special education students, both of which are higher than previous years. Principal Perry noted many students have mental health issues.

It's great that Nova's students have found a place where they feel safe and where their mental health issues are accommodated. Isn't this evidence that our comprehensive high schools are not welcoming, safe places for all students? Students should be choosing option schools for a different kind of learning experience, not as a refuge. When students transfer out of their neighborhood schools counselors should be required to document the reason they're leaving. That information should be considered in the principal's evaluation and compiled and reported to the school board annually.
Anonymous said…
For the record I have had many SPED kids who did not feel "safe" at Nova, I have met SPED Teachers who left as they felt the school did little to develop that program nor wanted it. Many ended up at Middle College and then well you know what happened to one of their schools.

The Center School is under whose watch now? Briskova is at World School and given her history and issues I suspect that school will not last when space is needed for elementary kids. Then where do bilingual kids go?

We are not addressing the needs of any diverse group and walkouts do what exactly? Well they provide a "type" of learning yet I would be hamstringed to discuss it but you again can teach this in the civics portion of the history curriculum. Oh wait, never mind.

I have had to teach mindfulness at one school, when I taught it in another I was called out for teaching racist lessons... unclear what that meant but I suspect it was more religion based and again we don't teach Theology as a course.

Move to the red zones people and get some learning and teaching there. It is the America you don't know or see.

- SPS Oldster
Good point, Lynn.

I'm hearing on Twitter that Ben Carson is out for Sec'y of Ed (it seems he doesn't want any cabinet position) and that perhaps Eva Moskowitz (who runs a charter chain in NYC) or Michelle Rhee (a walking nightmare for public ed.)
Anonymous said…
SPED students have not felt safe in a system that has been forever under the control of Democrats and a liberal populists, but now all the ? students are afraid, so they are free to go about disrupting everyone's education.

Many might be fooled by this BS but not SPED parents.

SPED reality
robyn said…
I agree with the above posts against the walk-out yesterday (for middle school anyway). My middle schooler called from Hamilton asking if I would call in to excuse her absence for protesting. I asked what she was protesting. She said, Trump and stuff. What about Trump, I asked. She said, all my teachers are encouraging us to protest, you know, his racism and stuff.

I told her to go ahead and protest. I said, when you're done, it'd be great if you figured out what you were actually protesting and tell your teachers to keep politics out of the classroom.

I replied to the Principal's unexcused absence e-mail and said I was not at all happy with the teachers strongly encouraging this. Due to the encouragement by teachers, it should be an excused absence. I told him that even though this protest fell on our side of the fence, I couldn't help but wonder how it would feel if we lived in Kansas or Texas and teachers were encouraging students to protest Obama. I am deeply upset that the teachers are not teaching both sides so our kids can understand other opinions when they leave the liberal echo chamber that is Seattle. It bothers me that so many parents are SO proud of their kids for doing this. The reality is the vast majority just wanted to get out of the classroom.
Cap hill said…
Garfield has a PTSA General meeting tonight. Here's the kicker...

After announcing the honors for all program in the newspaper (not to parents)...
AND cancelling 9th grade parent orientation (citing the lack of translation)...
AND not attending curriculum night

Principal Ted Howard declined the invitation from the PTSA to meet with parents.

How is it possible that this guy keeps his job?
Po3 said…
Morning news:

Ben Carson not interested in serving in Trump administration.

Rudy Giuliani calls protesters (our students!) “goons and thugs,” while barely addressing the post-election hate crimes.

Our right to assemble peacefully is under attack; students should continue to assemble and get registered to vote!

Anonymous said…
Rumor is SPS is now targeted to lose all federal funding due to Seattle being a Sanctuary city. Way to go Ed Murray your personal cause will now cost Seattle millions of dollars, oh wait you will try replace the lost federal funds with more local taxes.


Chris S. said…
Given that we don't allow these young people to vote and the world we are leaving them to clean up and fix, I don't think any adult has the moral high ground to tell them to do anything.
Anonymous said…
My kid at Hamilton said that most of the kids protested because "it was a fun way to skip school".

Good Grief
Anonymous said…
Again that could be easily rectified by a class action lawsuit of which Seattle is so infamous for. Teacher's free speech is not protected if in fact it disrupts education. Telling a 12 year old to "protest" is absurd when it is clear this individual did not even teach the child civics in which to ensure that he/she has full knowledge of FACTS to make a critical analytical system.

We don't have to tell them what to do we have to TEACH them the skills in which to do... to make analytical critical decisions and respect that while many differ there are ways to resolve them via compromise and communication.

Again, the ham fisted politics of SPS teaches nothing but the kids get a class free so huzzah.

- SPS Oldster
I'm sure many kids did this to skip school or be cool BUT they may have learned several valuable lessons. You can learn from mistakes (if that's what a students ends up thinking it is.)

I think we do need to talk and educate students more about civics and our democracy. Civics for All has been advocating this for years.

I do agree that teachers should keep their personal politics out of encouraging kids to walk out.
Anonymous said…
Protest at 5:30 at the Locks to support the tribes and all people who are fighting the pipeline in ND.

The Stranger lists all protests under Things to Do on their website. I recommend going to every protest possible until Fuhrer-elect Drumf is defeated.

I plan on losing some weight and getting some fresh air at demos for the foreseeable future.

I do want the election overturned, not given to HCR, but a redo, under a new system that actually gives people a voice, not just a "choice" between a old racist fat cat and an old money grubbing war monger.

I don't see why we have to respect a system of government that was founded on the principal that only white propertied men could have power. The notion that it has changed with time to better represent all the people contradicts reality.

The system finds new ways to perpetuate concentrations of wealth and power and to convince the ordinary people it is the best form of governing.

News flash. We have one of the worst forms of government in the non-totalitarian world.

It's showtime!

Anonymous said…
There are organizations that would love to have them volunteer, organize and support voters rights across the country. Walking out was a day off.. just without Ferris Bueller.

I live in a red state now we aren't doing any of this. Wow we have some marches and they were either college students or on Saturday when people of all ages could join. That would be more proactive then this farce.

- SPS Oldster
juicygoofy said…
My Hamilton student protested yesterday. She said her teachers left the decision entirely up to the students. Personally, I think it was a valuable learning experience, one that she will likely remember the rest of her life and possibly shape her decisions in the future. More importantly, both she and I felt that she was "safe" at all times, as the Principal and support staff were also outside, supervising the students.
Anonymous said…
NY students were chanting F*** Donald Trump as they marched through the streets. Yes, it is their right to exercise their 1st Amendment rights, but how is fighting hate with hate going to help us move forward?

Years ago, I voiced concern that my child's middle school was not teaching civics or basic US/WA history. They failed to even teach the Civil War. There were no lessons on the structure of WA state government or elections. I also expressed concern about some of the biased lessons in the classroom. Did the school care? Not really. It does not surprise me in the least that some teachers were encouraging students to participate in the walkout.

That's how Seattle rolls. Most parents seem okay with it. You learn to keep your mouth shut if you disagree and then make sure you are providing enough discussion at home to keep your children inoculated from such one sided thinking.

I tell them that if they want to make a difference, get an education. We need smart, dedicated public servants who can negotiate and work toward real solutions (and not just scream and shout). And if students learn nothing else this election season, it should be that every vote counts.

-born elsewhere
Anonymous said…
I will say this again, you're all now Negan. You will obey or suffer. Your side lost BIG LEAGUE. Sure you will kick and scream while you all try and sabotage democracy, but it won't change a thing. What it does do is allow the other side to gather intelligence and identify all the little radicals, so their names can be put in the database.

Do you want a real fight? You little snowflakes would not last a day.


Anonymous said…
and so it begins,


"The red 'Make America Great Again' hats poured out of the House Republican conference Tuesday– the signal that the party has fully drunk the the Donald Trump Kool-aid it was resisting little more than a week ago."

Pretty soon the liberals will be caught burning the US Reichstag, I mean Capitol, and we'll be under martial law.

Remember the Lutheran Pastor Martin Niemöller's words:

"First they came for Communists but I wasn't one..."

As Nobel Prize winner Zimmerman sang, "It doesn't take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows".

If the kids can protest what is your excuse?

almond milk
Anonymous said…
The Socialist will flee to the far corners of the nation to build refuge from the coming storm.

Pussy Grabber
Anonymous said…
Lucille-- ? Our country was founded on citizens who spoke up. It is the most democratic act Americans can do. Peaceful protests are important to send a clear message. I don't think many think it will overturn anything. The majority voted for Clinton and to state they dislike Trump is an understatement. This does not have as much to do with "sides" as this particular person whom his own party did not support. While many might criticize the electoral college, most believe in our democratic process that elected Trump.

Get ready for the biggest mobilization and backlash that will propel us to move forward as a nation. Those who voted for him don't have my hate. As David Brooks stated I do believe many are suffering and were disenfranchised. Most put up with all this guy said because he spoke about changing their economic situation. If that does not happen he will be out. But he will likely do himself all by himself prior.
-moving forward
Po3 said…
Come on folks:

Students missed 1.5 hours of school, not a day, not a week... Did they do it perfectly, nope, but they did something they felt they needed to do.
There may have been some passionate teachers who probably encouraged students when they shouldn't have, shall we hunt them down and discipline them? Or can we just have some compassion for people who are grieving and fearful for what's to follow?

Hows's about giving everyone a break as we start to understand this new world we live in. (And Enough, that includes our Mayor working hard to understand what this means to our city!)

And Lucille. Can we extend some olive branches instead of threats?
Anonymous said…
Cap Hill,
If you want to talk to Howard, you can go to the office and wait there. He is there every day and does meet with parents one-on-one.
Anonymous said…
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Anonymous said…
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Anonymous said…
I looking forward to new jobs and prosperity for our inner cities. I'm willing to put America first and support legal immigration reform.

Bracero program
Anonymous said…
"Get ready for the biggest mobilization and backlash that will propel us to move forward as a nation"

How so...by more destruction of others property by people who didn't think it was important to vote? Get you facts straight, most of these protesters couldn't pass a basic civics class and many are simply out to cause chaos because of mob mentality.

Regardless, there will be no election do over, no rolling back SCOTUS appointees and no Democratic takeover in 2018.

The next 8 years belong to the victors and it will be glorious.

End PC
Anonymous said…
Wow. Just wow. As of tiday it's become ormal to use the words fascist and facism in conersation.

Address unknown
Lynn said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Eric B said…
End PC, how did we get from marching around the block to destruction of property? The student protests were peaceful. And, uh, you might have noticed that these were middle and high school students protesting, who aren't eligible to vote. Even if they had wanted to, they couldn't. Ending PC apparently also means ending dealing in facts.

I agree that there's not going to be an election do-over, but how do you know the Democrats aren't going to take back Congress in 2018? Trump rode populist anger into the White House, but his statements so far look like more benefits for the plutocrats. If he can't deliver jobs in quantity, a lot of people are going to turn on him.
Anonymous said…
The left's idea that fascism exist in our government is laughable, but also gives credence for the need to bring required civics curriculum to all schools.
For those who have experienced real fascism, I apologize for my misguided fellow Americans mistaken choice of words.

All the screaming and tantrums by the left is tantamount to the reaction a child has to the word NO and will slowly melt away like last snow of winter.

I'm not aware of the use of any tactics of the right to rig the election, they could be doing it, who knows, but we have overwhelming evidence the left did engage in many unseemly tactics and we should all feel fortunate that most of the tactics were day-lighten by wikileaks and the FBI.

If the left wants their political party to survive in any measurable way they would be smart to stop the antics and start moving back to the middle.

End PC

Anonymous said…
"Trump rode populist anger into the White House"

Really ? Nothing to do with the left running a severely flawed candidate who engaged in questionable practices by enriching herself while in office?

It's interesting, I'm wasn't angry, I'm collage educated...oh so as Clinton said, I must be a "Racist, Sexist, Homophobic, Xenophobic, or Islamophobic" right?

It's called a turn off, you see in my opinion throwing out wholesale stereotypes usually doesn't work on most people. You know like calling all Mexicans rapist which by the way Trump never did.

Just to be honest, I have a little case of Islamophobia(?) you bet I do, but I don't go around damaging others property or go out of my way to confront people over it. I take a more analytical approach by challenging by beliefs.

And I did just that and did not vote for Clinton.

End PC
Anonymous said…
Fascism, in the sense of a political movement, is more a tendency to exhibit certain behaviors or ideas rather than a strictly defined political ideology. For example, fascists tend to stir up and capitalize on intensely nationalist feelings; seek a rebirth of the nation by mythologizing a traditional set of national values; advocate violence as a political tool; celebrate action at the expense of thought, intellect, or ethical considerations; place faith in a charismatic or popular leader; demonstrate a reactionary antimodernism in their hatred and rejection of individualism, liberalism, feminism, democracy, labor organizations, and diversity of race, religion and ethnicity; exhibit contempt for imagined weaknesses or vulnerabilities in people; generate and exploit fear about people and ideologies that supposedly weaken the nation; and view war as a positive and ennobling experience.

So, in that sense, Trump and his followers are fascists.

Anonymous said…
Well, End PC, now I know where you get your "facts." The "news" source I could find saying that Trump did not call Mexicans rapists was Breitbart.

Trump did, in fact, call Mexicans rapists, and he even defended doing so: http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/07/01/trump-defends-calling-immigrants-rapists.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

It's one thing to have a difference of opinion, but there can be no difference of fact.

Voting for Trump was condoning the behavior of a man who said many racist and sexist things. There is also video footage of him mocking a disabled reporter. But you know this and voted for him anyway.

I shouldn't respond to any of this, but I think there is going to be four long years of trying to keep this country fact-based.

Anonymous said…

I'm not following anyone, I voted. and the only violence I've see is by the left. I'm not going to bother with all the citations, find them yourself since you're so astute with goggling, cut then paste.

As a fun exercise try approaching Trump voter and calling them a fascists, I bet they just walk away. Then approach a liberal of any favor and call them one of your derogatory stereotypes. I'm very sure you will receive a violent reaction possibly resulting in you being physically assaulted.

I wish my grandfather were still alive, he could give you lesson in what it's like to experience true fascism which is unlike your liberal misuse of the term.

End PC

Anonymous said…
"The rage of the disesteemed is personally fruitless, but it is also absolutely inevitable; this rage, so generally discounted, so little understood even among the people whose daily bread it is, is one of the things that makes history. Rage can only with difficulty, and never entirely, be brought under the domination of the intelligence and is therefore not susceptible to any arguments whatever."

James Baldwin, "Stranger in the Village"

Anonymous said…
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Anonymous said…
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Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
1) Lynn, sorry, I accidentially deleted your comment but I will be reposting that soon as its own thread.

2) Some of you seem to be here to gloat. That serves no purpose in any discussion so you can go find somewhere else to be.

Outsider said…
Here is an interesting discussion of the current situation, better than the sniping that tends to erupt here:


It's between a staffer at Vox (leftish web news site) and NYU professor Jonathan Haidt who articulates an insightful and more sympathetic than usual view of the anti-diversity faction yet somehow manages not to get shot by the PC police.
Anonymous said…
I for one will be glad when some of our blue state hackers get hold of Trump's tax returns. He's the only "president" who has been elected into office while being audited. He and his family refuse to release the tax returns because he doesn't want them under scrutiny (they've stated this). Since the last president who won the electoral college but lost the popular vote went on to bankrupt the country, the American people would be well advised to demand to see these returns.

Anonymous said…
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Eric B said…
End PC, I'm truly baffled by what planet you live on. Seattle students destroy property by walking around the block, but Trump supporters didn't destroy property when they vandalized church signs? I pointed out in a previous thread where women were groped by Trump supporters. Does that not count as violence in your world? By the way, I'm still waiting for you to enlighten us all where SPS students were assaulted for being Trump supporters. Care to mention a school so we can fact-check?

I don't think that the US is a fascist state. However, in my daughter's 20th Century History class, the teacher laid out several arguments used by the fascists as they were elected on the way to becoming dictators:

* The country was a great nation, but isn't any longer.
* The decline was caused by particular ethnic groups.
* The country doesn't have the respect of other nations.
* Only this particular leader has the knowledge to regain the country's greatness.
* The opposition is traitorous and should be jailed.

If you stop and think for a moment, those arguments might sound a lot like the Trump campaign's this last year. So yeah, it's completely reasonable to draw parallels. I personally don't think that Trump will try a fascist-style takeover, but that doesn't mean I won't be watching.

I'm also not saying that Clinton was a great candidate. She has baggage from a lot of time in public office. But Trump absolutely rode populist anger into the White House. He went around the Rust Belt saying that he was going to bring jobs back to this country. That was his entire argument for why people should look past all of the awful things he said and did.

Also, just by the way, Clinton said half of Trump's supporters were racists, etc. So she didn't say you were, just because you supported Trump. Interestingly, a poll shortly after Clinton's comments went public showed that about 40% of Trump supporters thought black people were inherently not as smart as white people. So Clinton was really only about 10% off.
Lynn said…
The agenda and supporting documents for this week's meeting of the Operations Committee are available and include proposed changes to the assignment plan (beginning on page 281).

The purpose of this action is to update information in the Student Assignment Plan. The Plan for 2017-18 continues most of the assignment rules in effect during 2016-17, but some highlights and changes are:
Opening Cedar Park Elementary, Meany Middle, and Robert Eagle Staff Middle (attendance area) schools;

Truncating grades at Madrona: this school becomes a K-5, instead of a K-8;

Establishing a GeoZone for Licton Springs K-8;

Modifying HCC pathways;

Adding Chief Sealth as the southeast dual language immersion pathway high school;

Removing conflicting assignment guarantees for new to the district 6-8th grade students,

that live within K-8 attendance areas;

Moving the date when waitlists are dissolved from August 15 to August 31; and

Updating school and program names and locations.

Anonymous said…
FYI: F*** Donald Trump is a popular Hip Hop song by a popular artist. My kid is attending his concert soon.

Anonymous said…
Thanks for the link, Lynn. It looks like Garfield is remaining the default HCC pathway for high school, with Ingraham IBX as an option (based on "space available"). 9th grade IBX parents have been told starting IB in 10th grade will no longer be the default for HCC students and they will have to opt in to an IBX pathway after meeting some yet to be defined criteria. The default will be starting IB in 11th. Parents should be asking what that means for current and future 9th graders. Are they suggesting students will be on their own senior year if they choose IBX? Will they continue to offer honors pre-IB classes in 9th? Will parents have complete information before open enrollment?

-info please
Anonymous said…
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Anonymous said…
The Ballard High Principal wrote a good letter to students. My student told me he wanted to go to protest because he didn't want to sit in his classes at the end of the day. I urged him to go to class because he needs to be in class to do better in school. He attended the protest against my wishes - his teacher was supportive of students who wanted to attend and even reminded them that it was starting - so there was no attempt by the school to stop kids from protesting - if that's what the Soup for Teachers people were concerned about. Later, when I heard about my child's experience during the protest it was positive and it was a learning experience too.
Nw Mom
Unknown said…
Having just seen this TV news report from NYC in 1992, I think viewing it might open a lot of eyes-- especially by those crying for Law and Order, and civil obedience.


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