Update on High School credit
I contacted Rosalind Wise by phone today and we spoke about high school credit for middle school students who take Integrated I math classes.
It turns out that, although hundreds of middle school students take advanced math classes called "Integrated I" or "Integrated II", the District regards these as high school classes and did not include them in the Spring 2006 middle school math adoption. We can question that decision, but we can't change it. These classes were based on high school courses adopted thirteen years ago, at the time of the last high school math adoption, but they have evolved from those roots in a number of different directions without re-calibration. The Integrated I class was also altered and adapted to work with the CMP2 texts. The classes are all a little different at each school. Therefore, for perfectly understandable and legitimate reasons, the District does not have confident knowledge about what is taught in those classes.
I now understand that there is a significant amount of variation in the math classes in the high schools. They use a number of different curricula (Core plus, IMP, etc.) and each school uses their curriculum in their own way. As with the Integrated I and Integrated II classes in the middle schools, the high school courses have evolved from their roots in a number of different directions without re-calibration. Therefore the District has no definitive answer as to what is being taught in those classes, either.
Consequently, it is unusually difficult for the District to determine to what extent the Integrated I class a student took last year is similar or equivalent to an Integrated I class offered in a high school.
The District is about to embark on a high school math curriculum adoption. When it is complete, within a couple years, the District will know what is taught in the high schools and what is taught in the advanced classes in the middle schools and they WILL be aligned.
During the current transition period, just at this moment, it is deceptively tricky for the District to determine whether the Integrated I class at Washington Middle School last year was similar or equivalent to a high school course taught last year. The District will soon be able to say that these courses are, in fact, equivalent, and say it with authority. For now, however, the question requires a surprising amount of research and consideration.
To their great credit, Ms Wise and Ms Santorno did not elect to pronounce the classes similar just to move the request off their desks and avoid the work the question would require. I admire that choice. Particularly when it would not be difficult to find a high school class with at least 80% overlap with the middle school class.
Since I have no wish to divert the time and attention of the District staff with an effort of such narrow interest and temporary application, I withdrew my request for high school credit for my daughter for the Integrated I class she took last year. I don't know if anyone else has requested similar credit, but I don't believe it to be the case. With my request withdrawn, I hope that the staff will be allowed to drop this task and take up efforts of broader interest and more lasting relevance.
Presuming my daughter successfully completes Mr. Pounder's Integrated II class this year, I will request credit for her for that class. I understand that Integrated II presents a clearer case. World Language and Mr. Schmitz's Washington State History courses will be additional questions for other departments. Ms Santorno may want to get those department heads started on that research now.
The Student Learning Committee did not meet last week. They are scheduled to meet again on October 23. No agenda has been posted yet. The SLC still needs to amend Policy D46.01 to strike out the language there which prohibits high school credit for middle school students. That will align the District's policies with the current state law, RCW 28A.230.090.
I am grateful to Ms Wise for the time she spent with me on the phone. She was candid and forthright. She was clear in her explanation of the difficulties posed by my request. She acknowledged the legitimacy of my request and my consternation at the delay in response. By withdrawing the request, I believe I have returned her time to her with dividends.
It turns out that, although hundreds of middle school students take advanced math classes called "Integrated I" or "Integrated II", the District regards these as high school classes and did not include them in the Spring 2006 middle school math adoption. We can question that decision, but we can't change it. These classes were based on high school courses adopted thirteen years ago, at the time of the last high school math adoption, but they have evolved from those roots in a number of different directions without re-calibration. The Integrated I class was also altered and adapted to work with the CMP2 texts. The classes are all a little different at each school. Therefore, for perfectly understandable and legitimate reasons, the District does not have confident knowledge about what is taught in those classes.
I now understand that there is a significant amount of variation in the math classes in the high schools. They use a number of different curricula (Core plus, IMP, etc.) and each school uses their curriculum in their own way. As with the Integrated I and Integrated II classes in the middle schools, the high school courses have evolved from their roots in a number of different directions without re-calibration. Therefore the District has no definitive answer as to what is being taught in those classes, either.
Consequently, it is unusually difficult for the District to determine to what extent the Integrated I class a student took last year is similar or equivalent to an Integrated I class offered in a high school.
The District is about to embark on a high school math curriculum adoption. When it is complete, within a couple years, the District will know what is taught in the high schools and what is taught in the advanced classes in the middle schools and they WILL be aligned.
During the current transition period, just at this moment, it is deceptively tricky for the District to determine whether the Integrated I class at Washington Middle School last year was similar or equivalent to a high school course taught last year. The District will soon be able to say that these courses are, in fact, equivalent, and say it with authority. For now, however, the question requires a surprising amount of research and consideration.
To their great credit, Ms Wise and Ms Santorno did not elect to pronounce the classes similar just to move the request off their desks and avoid the work the question would require. I admire that choice. Particularly when it would not be difficult to find a high school class with at least 80% overlap with the middle school class.
Since I have no wish to divert the time and attention of the District staff with an effort of such narrow interest and temporary application, I withdrew my request for high school credit for my daughter for the Integrated I class she took last year. I don't know if anyone else has requested similar credit, but I don't believe it to be the case. With my request withdrawn, I hope that the staff will be allowed to drop this task and take up efforts of broader interest and more lasting relevance.
Presuming my daughter successfully completes Mr. Pounder's Integrated II class this year, I will request credit for her for that class. I understand that Integrated II presents a clearer case. World Language and Mr. Schmitz's Washington State History courses will be additional questions for other departments. Ms Santorno may want to get those department heads started on that research now.
The Student Learning Committee did not meet last week. They are scheduled to meet again on October 23. No agenda has been posted yet. The SLC still needs to amend Policy D46.01 to strike out the language there which prohibits high school credit for middle school students. That will align the District's policies with the current state law, RCW 28A.230.090.
I am grateful to Ms Wise for the time she spent with me on the phone. She was candid and forthright. She was clear in her explanation of the difficulties posed by my request. She acknowledged the legitimacy of my request and my consternation at the delay in response. By withdrawing the request, I believe I have returned her time to her with dividends.
Comments
I see the results of this disaster everyday, in front of me.
They're going to take a few more years of dinking around ...?
Should I tell my 14 year olds that headquarters is blaming ospi and ospi is blaming the legislature and no one is responsible for their negligible math skills?
Oh, nevermind! They're 14, they haven't a clue what they don't know and they haven't a clue about what they'll never have access to!
Problem Solved!
anon at 4:18
Thank you -
In Shoreline it is cut and dry, as it should be.
MS language counts as a HS language credit.
Integrated I and II counts as HS credit.
Cut and dry.
I have little confidence in this district anymore. And even less patience for their follies.
Kudos to Ms. Wise for her honesty (even if it's not what people want to hear) and kudos to Charlie for his informative and non-judgemental post. Now, let's put some pressure on the board and people downtown to adopt a math curriculum for the high schools. Now. This year. It is long overdue.
Don't let the size of the district excuse their lack of leadership and vision.
Kids need 20 credits in WA to graduate which is 5 classes per year for 4 years. Accelerated students or those in other districts who have a longer fuller day will earn more credits.
FYI, they have been "aligning" to the standards for years in Seattle. They bought CMP and IMP years ago before any adoption ever occurred. It was a done deal before any committees met. CMP has been around for at least 4 years, right? What a formal adoption allows is for millions of dollars to be spent on the new editions. The reason we haven't seen administrators in the schools from what was called Curriculum and Instruction or Rosalind from the math dept, is because they were "busy aligning to the standards."
Does anyone know?
Is one superior, or more traditional?
Good for you, Charlie, for letting go of this. Your daughter doesn't really need it as high school credit since I'm sure she will be taking many higher level courses when she heads to high school next year.
Someone has to stand up to the district and hold them accountable. Charlie has been doing that. Unfortunately, he has had to take the brunt of many posters calling him selfish and "wasting the districts time".
I totally disagree.
My child goes to Shoreline so I am not worried on a personal level, rather it is a concern of mine for all of the children in Seattle who work for, and then don't get, their credit. Unfortunate for them I guess.
When I learned that it would, in fact, be a significant project for them, I had to put the best interests of the community ahead of my family's narrow self interests.
I'm not happy that the District couldn't answer this question easily, and Ms Wise was not proud to acknowledge it.
What tipped the scales for me was Ms Wise's candor and integrity and that I was convinced that they were working towards a better situation, one in which the district had a handle on the middle school and high school math.
Then WHY DO KIDS GET PLACEMENT INTO THE NEXT CLASS? The whole business still makes no sense to me.
Helen Schinske
Charlie, commendably says "I had to put the best interests of the community ahead of my family's narrow self interests."
I respectfully disagree, Charlie. In my opinion this was not serving your family's narrow self interest. But rather, this would have set a president for all of the other students in Seattle. Students who earn, and deserve, their credit.
Well, hopefully Ms. Wise will follow through on her word and work hard and swiftly to align curriculum so that credit will be given when earned.
Again, I'm not pleased and Ms Wise is not proud of the fact that they don't already know the answer to the question. I will be pleased and she will be proud next year when they WILL know the answer to the question and the answer will be "Yes".