Tuesday Open Thread
Better late than never.
Anyone attend the SCPTSA meeting last night with Dr. Enfield and Director DeBell?
And this in from a reader:
Betsy Ross said... Hey, I know this isn't on topic but there's no Tuesday open thread. Happened to turn on KIRO radio when Dori Monson had a parent from JSIS on, complaining that the "left-wing" parents wanted to have the Pledge of Allegiance used only as as a topic taught in history class, in deference to the immigrant students, some of whom are undocumented. This angered her and her husband, and a huge blow-up happened on the parent email tree, apparently. She came pretty close to saying that the undocumented kids should just sit down and shut up as should the offending left-wingers.
Has anyone heard a more...balanced account of this? She implied that the "left wingers" were trying to control the principal on this. I don't know any parents with kids there but I'd love to know more.
--Betsy Ross
From KIRO FM:
"It seems a parent sent an email to other parents, complaining about the pledge. She writes that many of the students are the children of foreigners or undocumented citizens, so "asking them to pledge to a republic with liberty and justice for all is asking them to pledge alliance to a republic that does not consider them or their families equal before the law."
"She goes on to complain the school is improperly "imposing an ideology and form of worship, albeit for a flag." She suggest the pledge should only be taught in history class."
I guess I would like to know how she knows these students are undocumented - Washington isn't Alabama. I think it is probably harder for young students to not say the pledge even if they are not obliged to do so.
What's on your mind?
Anyone attend the SCPTSA meeting last night with Dr. Enfield and Director DeBell?
And this in from a reader:
Betsy Ross said... Hey, I know this isn't on topic but there's no Tuesday open thread. Happened to turn on KIRO radio when Dori Monson had a parent from JSIS on, complaining that the "left-wing" parents wanted to have the Pledge of Allegiance used only as as a topic taught in history class, in deference to the immigrant students, some of whom are undocumented. This angered her and her husband, and a huge blow-up happened on the parent email tree, apparently. She came pretty close to saying that the undocumented kids should just sit down and shut up as should the offending left-wingers.
Has anyone heard a more...balanced account of this? She implied that the "left wingers" were trying to control the principal on this. I don't know any parents with kids there but I'd love to know more.
--Betsy Ross
From KIRO FM:
"It seems a parent sent an email to other parents, complaining about the pledge. She writes that many of the students are the children of foreigners or undocumented citizens, so "asking them to pledge to a republic with liberty and justice for all is asking them to pledge alliance to a republic that does not consider them or their families equal before the law."
"She goes on to complain the school is improperly "imposing an ideology and form of worship, albeit for a flag." She suggest the pledge should only be taught in history class."
I guess I would like to know how she knows these students are undocumented - Washington isn't Alabama. I think it is probably harder for young students to not say the pledge even if they are not obliged to do so.
What's on your mind?
Comments
PS. this is the north end of West Seattle.
How about the school in Texas where a teacher recently required a Spanish class (the language not the students) to memorize and recite the Mexican Pledge of Allegiance and sing the Mexican National Anthem?
That caused a hullabaloo.
-JC.
I'm thinking probably not that many under the NSAP, right? And even so, did they want this parent to speak up on their behalf? How do the actual foreigners and undocumented citizens feel about it?
"She came pretty close to saying that the undocumented kids should just sit down and shut up as should the offending left-wingers."
Which sort of go against the whole "global village" thing JSIS is all about, doesn't it? Is this what happens when we restrict global villages to Wallingford?
As for the Pledge, I'm okay with it as long as students aren't forced to say it, and it sounds like they aren't (based on our discussion about this in Friday's open thread).
http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=459668
I'll take this seriously when JSIS parents and teachers with real names talk about it. Otherwise it's ratings bait, that stuff Roger Ailes produces in place of real news. (Conservative talk is a dying format. Dori must doing poorly and yet he can't search key words Silas Potter + Maier?)
The impression I got was that the original email came from a liberal parent concerned, on her own, about immigrant kids. That was replied to by this conservative family and it all blew up. Still would love to hear from an actual JSIS parent.
An Appeal of Seattle School Board's approvals seeking
Conditional Certificates for Teach for America corps members to teach in the Seattle Public Schools
LINK to current draft of the initial filing of appeal.
Wendy
http://www.school-truth.com/TFA-appeal.html
Jane
The calendar's an improvement, but overall, I prefer the other format. Sorry guys & gals. WSDWG
Part of my letter---
> I repeat the question that another urban teacher already asked,
>
> I wonder why you did not launch a campaign to help urban students in
> low-income neighborhoods by supporting experienced, qualified, veteran
> teachers.
7th generation letter---
Thank you for taking the time to share your very well written thoughts about our partnership with Teach for America. I'm not sure if you live in the Seattle area but I have spoken with others there about the problems they are facing.
Like you, we believe that there is no more important issue facing our country today than the need to dramatically strengthen our educational system and give every child the absolute best possible start in life. I, too, have a degree in Education. I appreciate and respect the points you have made in your e-mail.
We are extremely grateful that you care enough about this issue to have taken the time to express your concern. This passionate dedication to what’s right is something that the world needs much more of, and we’re glad that you think enough of Seventh Generation to apply it to us, too. It is only through efforts like yours that we can be the company we want to be. Thanks once again for writing and keeping us on our toes. We appreciate both a very great deal.
Your opinions are important to us, and I will make sure that you are heard by the company.
Best Wishes,
Seventh generation letter---
Thank you for your e-mail of October 8 and the link to the thought-provoking article from the National Education Policy Center.
In these tough economic times, it is hard to know what to do as educational budgets are cut & taxpayers are unwilling or unable to take on any further burden. There is no easy answer.
I hope those of you in Seattle will be able to find a solution that, in all cases, keeps the welfare of the children in mind. As the saying goes "a mind is a terrible thing to lose."
Your passionate dedication is something the world needs much more of as we look for answers to the issues we are facing in regard to the funding of education for the next generation.
Thank you, again, for caring enough to share your thoughts with us. We are grateful.
Best wishes,
Customer Service
www.seventhgeneration.com
---Sorrel
And FWIW, when I was a kid I refused to say the pledge, but cut a deal with my (ex-Marine) homeroom teacher to stand quietly while everyone else did it. Fine by me. So far as I know, neither of my kids has EVER said the pledge or been asked to in their SPS schools.
Yes, if especially the saying is "a mind is a terrible thing to waste."
Hilarious.
JSIS Mama
er not to have one." - W
WSDWG
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2011/10/24/111024sh_shouts_semple
Recovering preschool co-op mom
Nice to see that she is interested in fulfilling the requirements of the law.
Yes, Dan is right. The JSIS issue over the pledge is a legit story and the principal went through a long process to hear all voices.
I'll just add as a JSIS parent, I didn't hear about this until after the "long process to hear all voices", and it was announced on the website.
It sounds like she took this to the BLT, but, of course, the BLT is composed of a small number of parents, and, as far as I know, the BLT members didn't reach out to the wider parent community.
What is difficult in my case is that I was trained and do it well. My kid's teacher, on the other hand, calls what he is doing "Writers' Workshop," but I have never seen any of the garbage my kid is sent home to do presented EVER in any training. My first clue was the lack of topic generating done by students. He provides the topics (bar lowering maneuver #1). I can't wait to see how the rest of the year goes.
-teachermom
I'm going to remain somewhat anonymous because I don't want anyone to figure out which school it is and then start cracking down!
Proud Public School Parent
Do you teach in middle school? Do you feel that Readers/Writers workshop prepares kids for high school classes?
In my child's high school classes they read assigned books that are a stretch for many students, not 'just right reading level'. By 10th grade they are expected to read, analyze & learn information from college level text books that are not fiction. They are graded on use of spelling & grammar in their writing. They write almost no personal narratives, but many research papers, essay exams with no rough drafts, oral arguments, dialectic essays, and lab notes. They have to know parts of speech in their foreign language classes. Their teachers expect that they know how to do this writing. They complain about the kids not being prepared. I did not see these things taught in my child's middle school readers & writer's workshop classes. Are the high school teacher's wrong about the preparation?
High school parent
parent
Chris S.
In the story, the country has been taken over by the communists and a new state-appointed teacher comes in and basically proves to the kids that the pledge, simply recited as rote, means nothing. My teacher's point was that you have to truly understand it for it to matter, and of course, that PEOPLE matter, such as the people running the country, like those her family escaped.
I tend to agree. Having every kid in every classroom repeat words that becoming meaningless over time does nothing. Why rail about schools no following state law? I think it would be far more meaningful for kids to leanr the whys and wherefores of the Pldge, as part of our nation's history. That said, the principal at the school in question is going to get slammed from both directions and parents are already pitted against one another. I don't see any answer to make everyone happy.
I thought it was designed as a K-5 curriculum, so why is it being used for middle school?
In early elementary, it has its place because it gets kids writing. It's very prescriptive, however, and once kids achieve basic proficiency in writing, I think it actually does a disservice to kids to continue with the program.
There needs to be balanced instruction that includes spelling, punctuation and grammar, as well as writing that extends beyond personal and self-selected material. Our child's teacher wouldn't even let kids reach for the dictionary during writing time. And then sitting on the carpet - in middle school - to get directions, well, it's almost demeaning.
Here's a link from an earlier thread (from the Core Knowledge blog by Robert Pondiscio):
The Trouble at My Old School
doubtful parent
http://www.aclu-wa.org/library_files/PledgeofAllegianceBrochure.pdf
It deals mostly with a student's right to opt-out of the Pledge, without repercussions. It made the point that it's the student's choice, and not the parents.
What about the flip-side: can parents opposing the recitation of the Pledge keep a school from saying it? What about parents or students that want to say the Pledge? Are their rights being violated?
a reader
Video here=>
http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/video.asp?ID=5991
Charlie Mass is at 10:45 ... don't miss it.
Note the MAP action was tabled until next meeting ... WOW elections must be close.
At 136:00 is the Discussion of the Superintendent's evaluation instrument began.
DeBell starts out with its late, its different, its about goals and the four pillars, the expectations are delineated by time line.
We we looking for clarity and a narrowing down of items.
"Intro/and Action" all at once ... because we did not get the work done as quickly as needed. We have a necessity to get this work done.
As Charlie pointed out ... this received about two days worth of notice which amounts to ZERO public engagement.
No, they are not wrong to worry. I saw plenty of my colleagues in other schools who used the "Readers'/Writers'" work to make an excuse for having a bar set low. So, I do not doubt the observations you and others may have made about the programs in the schools where your students attend. I see it in my own student’s school. It seriously disappoints me because I know what the intention behind the theory and how well it can work in practice.
In my own classroom, I set my bar high and helped my kids make it over it via the workshop model and strategies (full inclusion- differentiated). High expectations are the key to ANY program working well. Without the high expectations part, a teacher has nothing. Kids will rise to the level you set in front of them. My high bar caused me a lot of grief. But I never lowered it and still won’t even after changing schools.
I advocated at the district level for the last semester of 8th grade to be about "getting ready for HS". TC's curriculum calendars for 8th grade are all about HS preparedness. The goods are there. A school just has to use them as they are meant to be used – to help kids grow as readers and writers, not use them to help make excuses for why the work is so easy and irrelevant.
-teachermom
-teachermom
http://www.school-truth.com/TfA_initial_filing2.pdf
To be filed on Friday October 21, 2011.
Regardless of how you feel about the pledge, the process sounded terrible (Melissa, I don't know where you got your read on the situation). It did, however, sound very familiar — their new principal sounds very consistent with our district.
-i don't heart SPS