Open Thread Friday
Friday. Possible sunshine for this weekend. Updated college-readiness figures show high schools doing better than was previously thought. The City is going to help protect district whistle-blowers. Dr. Enfield ends her second full week as superintendent.
Upcoming threads: School Board meeting and ICS, MAP and diversity among the teaching corps.
Upcoming threads: School Board meeting and ICS, MAP and diversity among the teaching corps.
Comments
So, first, it is a sad positive step to get the board to even ask questions. I have been pleased to see that more members are asking more questions. Next, an alarming number of those questions are not answered. A year ago, that often seemed to be the end of it. Now, more board members, especially Michael, come back immediately with "That didn't answer my question."
So, Dora asked, what? It appears the board is more proactive, but it doesn't appear that they get better data nonetheless. I have wondered the same thing. I don't have a good answer, but here's my musings on the topic.
First, the board was way too compliant, way too incurious and way too trusting of staff's data. Some board members and some public have taken the position that that trust and lack of curiosity is the appropriate role of the board. That perception needed to change. We especially need a majority of board members to exercise critical thinking. Michael and Kay (just to name the standouts) have been asking better questions, pointing out where presentations are unclear or misleading. I feel like other board members needed to see that, they needed to be present and face the reality that staff is lying or grossly incompetent. So by simply asking questions and pointing out that they didn't get answers has started (at a glacial pace) other board members to not only ask questions, but to admit to themselves that the answers they get are not good enough.
Yet board members have limited ability to insist on follow-up. Staff is still waiting them out. That's a problem inherent with the system. How to you get follow-up? How do you get follow-up fast enough to influence decision-making? How much happens publicly and how much privately? How can you publicly tell staff that they didn't do their job and yet do it diplomatically enough that you can affect good change? It's hard. But what have we seen lately? Even Peter has twice in public shown anger and frustration with staff. Shocking but true. Happened during a worksession regarding a strategic plan update and during a general board session regarding the lack of a capacity management report.
We absolutely need to see one of two things happen. Either the majority of the board agrees that the information or work wasn't sufficient and votes down an action item or the staff changes behavior and regularly DOES provide good information. Are we there yet? No. But we are moving closer, although WAAYY TOO SLOWLY!. Just realistically, it wasn't going to happen faster.
You are right on with the above observations. So let us make a much BIGGER DEAL about the actions and lack of action of those particular incurious do next to nothing board members.
School-Truth ....SPOT LIGHTS PLEASE: more testimony along the lines of Patricia Bailey, Melissa W, and you.
It also suggests a method for getting rid of the anecdotal "dead weight" at the JSC. And before anyone there gets offended, I tend to view this much as I view the anecdotal "bad teachers" - 90% myth until proven otherwise.
Anyway, when board members ask questions that can't be answered on the spot, the staff member should negotiate a reasonable time frame for producing the answer. The staff supervisor should track these request, and have the ability to intervene if deadlines are not reasonable. Failure provide information would have consequences, leading to termination for repeated failure.
There have been comments about the quality of the work produced, but first we need to make sure the right work is being done in the first place, that the right questions are being answered.
I actually had the idea described above at the time of superintendent change, and I was disappointed at the capacity work session to see same-ol, same-ol. No one said the exact words "I'll get back to you on that," but Kathy Johnson came close, a couple of times.
I thought DeBell's question was clear from the start. He clearly specified historical data, he clearly said "students changing schools mid year." I was also struck that not only did Tracy answer some different question, but that she took such a long time doing so. And Mr. DeBell did not stop her. When asked the question again, she did not know the answer - just incredible for the head of enrollment - and called on Ms. Cassidy.
I thought Ms. Cassidy did answer the question, and the answer was "due to NSAP policies, it's a very small number." So that's just the last few years, but OK. That's the answer. Don't tell me TRacy didn't know that. Why did they not want to say that? Could it be because "student mobility" has been a big argument for curriculum alignment/standardization?
I also thought of filibustering. If staff decides what gets put first on the agenda, then they, with circuituous answers, can theoretically make sure some things on the agenda never make it to discussion. From what I saw Wednesday, it looks like the board is going to really inconvenience some people by voting NO when the time comes and the proposal hasn't fully been vetted. Which, looking back over the past year, should have happened a number of times.
That'll be the day.
Given Carr, Sundquist, Harium, and Peter are on the Board ...... yes - really - that will be the day.
Dr. Susan Enfield = MGJ #2 .... Look for the rubber-stamping and Spinning to continue.
IF they start doing this, it will become increasingly more difficult for staff to stonewall (or for Dr. Enfield to allow it), and it will begin to educate the public on what is going on.
Two students in one class (and there may be others) who received their assignment letters for HS let me know that they each received multiple assignments to different schools because they live on a boundary line. One student received two: WSHS and Sealth. The other received...
wait for it...
you will love this...
FOUR!
RBHS
FHS
CHS
GHS
Yee HAW! I asked them to bring me the letters so that I can see them. If I can confirm this, what a future nightmare this is!
-ttln
"Jane Addams Spectrum and Advanced Learners Forum"
Tuesday, March 22nd
6:30-7:30 PM
In the Library
North End Mom
In the CD somewhere. He takes several pieces of public transportation starting at 6:30 am to get to West Seattle.
-ttln
if you love robots- the robotics competition is at Quest field this weekend. Go Viking robotics.
A student with four different school assignments?!
Honestly, there is a total lack of professionalism with what I have seen so far within the district starting with our last superintendent.
The expectation in my profession, as with anyone else's is, if you don't know the answer to a question, you get back to your boss or client within NO MORE than 24 hours.
The board is the boss and we are the bosses of the board. We pay all of the staff within the district although folks there don't seem to understand that.
I've seen the attitude of employees within the district at board meetings and executive meetings, they consider the rest of us simply an annoyance, and I can imagine that includes the board directors.
There needs to be a complete change of attitude and perspective on both sides.
How about we begin to determine each member of the district's "effectiveness" based on performance?
Things then just might begin to change for the better.
I would suggest giving each member of SPS staff a grade.
Hmmm...I might just start doing that on Seattle Ed.
Tracy basically said that they had only 10 years of data and the "ins" matched the "outs". This was very surprising to me as I recall the annual school reports all have a Student Mobility % at the top of each report and some are quite high (ie Sealth's is 23%), but neither Rachael nor Tracy mentioned this rate at all. It was as if they didn't want to even mention something that high & alarming, when they had just finished talking about how difficult it is to not know how many students are going to show up on the doorsteps in September in any school.
Here it is.
Recall hearing will be in Pierce County Superior Court around April 1.
In the past, studnets have been able to join NOVA at the semester break. This year they were told it was forbidden. They werre told that students may not change schools mid-year.
Then what the heck is that mobility number? Somebody is changing schools mid-year.
I too would like to see within year mobility and between year mobility data, it seems to me those are two entirely different things (but both important).
Our assignment letters were both correct. I wonder what happens if you plug the 'Twilight Zone' kid's address into the Address Lookup Tool? It worries me that whatever system creates the letters might be inconsistent with what families have been told by the Enrollment website.
She's written a piece for Michelle Rhee's StudentsFirst Blog, supporting getting rid of LIFO (otherwise known as seniority) for teachers at RIFing time...
She writes that her children go to Garfield and that getting a good teacher is "hit and miss"...
last in, first out hurts kids
I'm weighing how likely the SPS system is to be THAT screwed up, versus the ability of a 13 year old to interpret an SPS letter (combined with the tendency they have of wanting to one up each other and impress a teacher). I won't be SHOCKED to discover that SPS screwed up on that level, but I wouldn't be too surprised to hear the 13 year old misunderstood their letter.
Found on Truth Out site>
Helen Schinske
Thanks!
Growing more confused by the day.
We went around in circles over that for a while (pointing out that our son did not speak either language prior to starting JSIS did not seem to help). The person said it was explained to her that way by her manager, and yes, he will be receiving a call from me on Monday. It makes me crazy to think this misinformation is being given out to people new to the district or neighborhood.
Basically, some gang members went into the school and beat up three security guards who tried to stop them from finding and retaliating against female students who may have witnessed a nearby shooting. The gang members threatened to come back and shoot the guards before driving away.
As I mentioned on the Rainier Valley Post blog, it's a sad testament to the extent to which the city has given up on the school that this incident didn't merit any news coverage apart from the a post in the crime blog.
The policy of not allowing students to transfer after the waitlist dissolves has been around pre-NSAP and pre-MGJ. Eight years ago when my child was in first grade we were allowed to transfer him to another school mid year. Shortly after that the district changed this policy and would only allow transfers before the waitlist dissolved (September 30). After the waitlist dissolved no more transfers are allowed.
Not sure if NOVA, being an alt school, had a way around that policy, but for the rest of the schools in the district this has been the policy for at least 6 or 7 years.
I'm so sorry to hear about that terrible incident at Rainier Beach. I hope the secutiry guards are okay and that these thugs are caught.
Yes, there certainly should have been more news about it.
Hopefully it will make the news. There seems to be an increase of youth violence all over Seattle. Groups of youth out to "bop" other kids (steal from or assault them.) We need more youth intervention all over the city.
filing on Monday, March 21.
Actually, the article opens stating that three security were "assaulted". It goes on to say the assailants pushed past guards, that they "struggled" and that verbal threats were made. That's assault. Plain and simple.
Agree we don't want to sensationalize- but don't under estimate a threat either.
I do hope the city and SPS can collaborate to increase security and opportunity in and around the school.
--CD
I'd love for someone to do some reporting on this past quoting the police report. If the security guards recognized the intruders, then are the police out there looking to arrest them? Did anyone think to get the license plate of the car they drove off in?
It seems like a big deal to me that men came onto school property during the school day to terrorize students who witnessed a shooting, and "assaulted" and threatened to kill school staff.
But I don't know--maybe this happens a lot and isn't that big a deal. Is this common? Does the school district track assaults and other criminal incidents on campus the way they track test scores? As a parent, I'd be at least as interested in knowing about incidence of on-campus assault as the dozens of other items tracked on those school report cards.
The former AS1, now Pinehurst K-8, will hold a festival and fundraiser this coming Saturday. There'll be inflatable bouncies - one for grownups! - awesome food and music all day long, a silent auction, and more. We'd love you to come over and see what we're about. Here's a link to the brown paper tickets site describing the festival:
http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/164022
Come on by!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2011-03-18-schooltesting18_ST_N.htm
The "alternatives" are kind of disappointing, but you can see what test like the MAP are a reaction to.
So, for your reading pleasure:
Here is the thread that first mentioned Chris and Bree's honeymoon registry and had more discussion of the couple. I commented, but accidentally put my comment on another thread. So it might sort of look to a non-regular reader that it was out of the blue. Is that enough to make me an idiot? Decide for yourself.
And here is Kristin's email to me and my response.
Who made the intemperate comments. Kristin Bailey-Fogarty did. In a private email? Like Dorothy says, if you want privacy don't put anything in an email or honeymoon online registry.
I have commented on other threads about Bree D.'s lack of experience, messianic fervor, and trumpeting of the New Orleans (gawd awful charter)school "miracle". I also find dream honeymoon registries ticky-tacky. I must be an idiot too.
I will also say that I agree with Kristen to a certain extent. If you have issues with Bree that's fine, lay them out, but surely you can find more substance for discussion than her being young and in love, how much money she spent on her honeymoon, and the fact that she is married to an SPS math teacher. That is so irrelevant, and does not have anything at all to do with the job she is doing.
How about some substance now? What, if any, improvements has Bree made at Ingraham or any of her other schools? What do the staff at her schools think of the work she is doing? How about the families? Are they happy with her, or not?
And lastly, Dorothy, have you looked at Bree's credentials? Have you looked at the minimum requirements for the position of Ed Director? Does Bree meet them? These are the types of things that I think would be worth exploring, not how young and happy she looks.
As for sharing a somewhat threatening email that I got from a stranger? That is totally my prerogative. As for your thinking that is tacky and calling me out publicly for doing so? That is totally your prerogative as well.
And it seems to me Bree D. is more a charter management orgnization "expert" than an education director. Her body of work is lightweight to say the least:
The National Study of Charter Management Organization (CMO) Effectiveness: Report on Interim Findings Robin Lake, Brianna Dusseault, Melissa Bowen, Allison Demeritt, Paul Hill
Charter Management Organizations: Innovations, Opportunities, and Challenges - BRIEF Robin Lake, Brianna Dusseault, Melissa Bowen, Allison Demeritt, Paul Hill
Portfolio School Districts for Big Cities: An Interim Report Paul Hill, Christine Campbell, David Menefee-Libey, Brianna Dusseault, Michael DeArmond, Betheny Gross
Center for Reinventing Public Education
As for credentials...is it the ivory tower again? How'd she get the job? Well, looks to me like she interviewed MGJ for her CMO studies, probably appealed to her prodigious ego and got the offer (that's how thing's worked in MGJ's world). Doesn't appear to me that she has much to offer the principals and teachers at our public schools, except maybe to alienate them.
And as far as Kristin's letter being threatening, well, that is a stretch. She did call you a name, and challenge your opinion, but did not threaten you in any way.
But I'd still like this question answered.
"And lastly, Dorothy, have you looked at Bree's credentials? Have you looked at the minimum requirements/qualifications for the position of Ed Director? Does Bree meet them? "
Let's stick to substance, OK. Unless there is an age requirement for the position of Ed Director, I'm really not interested in how young Bree looks.
And for the record, my kids have had first year teachers, some who are just a few years older than they are, with very little classroom experience. Should we bag on them too?
As for Bree's credentials. Well, the question of a first year teacher? I am not sure I follow. Every experienced teacher was a first year teacher once. We wouldn't have any experienced teachers without having first year teachers.
Bree is not a teacher. She is Ed Director, which is an executive level position overseeing principals. She has very little experience in the classroom and only a year experience as a director of a charter school. I was told that she had a multi-year contract but left after a year to take a job in educational policy. The papers StopTfA shared shows what she did during that time. Whether that think-tank job prepared her for managing principals and teachers is something people can discuss.
So, should someone with such limited experience in the classroom and school administration, with NO experience in public schools, be hired as Ed director? That's what has many eyebrows raised.
As for Bree's performance, Kristin said it was superb but offered no examples. Therefore, I do not feel qualified to comment on the superbness of whatever examples Kristin was thinking of. I do know of some examples that other teachers and parents in the NW region do not consider superb.
Exactly my point Dorothy. Just like teachers, every new Ed Director was a first year ed director before they were an experienced Ed Director..
I believe your beef is with SPS, not Bree. She has apparently met the requirements and credentials set forth by SPS, for the position of Ed Director. If you don't like the requirements, and believe that Ed Directors need more classroom experience (very valid and I would agree with you on that), perhaps you need to complain to HR, or Dr. Enfield, and advocate for stronger requirements.
All I'm saying is that calling Bree out for how young and happy she looks, her age, how much her honeymoon costs, and her marriage to an SPS math teacher, all detract from your legitimate complaint. I think that was the grounds for Kristen's complaint.
I mostly agree with you. And had Kristin's email been more professional, had she not resorted to the adolescent impulse to call me an idiot, I probably would agree further.
But on one aspect I completely disagree. It is Very Germane that her relationship with a teacher is public knowledge. It is not inappropriate at all that teachers and parents are aware of such a connection, because one should always be aware of allegiances and communication routes. It is very germane to politics in the district and politics within SEA.
When Director Dussault came here with her husband, how did he land a job at Mercer? Aren't there still people who were laid off a year or so ago waiting for jobs? Did he go through the interview process? Were strings pulled "suggesting" that he would be a good candidate?
I'm certainly not avowing that he got his job because his wife was being brought in as Ed Director and he needed a job here, too, but it makes one wonder.
ARGH
If this teacher actually did compete with a TFA recruit for an open position (which I doubt) and was beat out, one would have to wonder why? Why would a principal, not being mandated to do so, hire an inexperienced TFA recruit over a highly experienced teacher?
My guess is that there was something about this experienced teacher that was not very appealing to the principal or their hiring committee.
I disagree. She illustrated the fact we have an abundance of quality experienced fully-certificated teachers in Seattle. In fact she was a "keeper" from a an alternative certification program called the Golden Apple Foundation. It struck me, why TFA was given special dispensation to supply SPS with intern "teachers of record" at our highest-need schools?
My guess is that there was something about this experienced teacher that was not very appealing to the principal or their hiring committee.
Your speculation is uncalled for. I might have to flame you via email....
I'd take that speculation over your suggestion that that acclaimed Golden Apple, Board certified, experienced teacher has something "not very appealing" about her any day.
I'd be surprised to hear that your principal was so unprofessional as to hammer the committee to only hire TFA, not to mention that he'd have to have some pretty big Cojones to try to strong arm a group of SPS teachers sitting on a hiring committee to hire a non certified TFA recruit over an experienced SPS teacher in the displaced pool. Talk about getting flamed. Geez.
But please do sit on that committee, and report back.
grumpy
I completely agree with you that Bree's position as a public executive makes her relationship with a teacher germane to our conversations, both here and also as a general matter of public understanding.
I also agree with what I believe is your overall assessment, i.e. that her appointment to this position is unfortunate, given her lack of experience, although I don't claim to know any more about her than what has been publicly discussed (mostly here).
But I tend to side with Peon that calling out information (and speculation) of a personal nature wasn't necessary, or helpful. ("And so affluent that the don't need irons and woks, but can spend thousands on a honeymoon.")
But the real reason for my comment here is to say that I strongly disagree that a private email conversation should be published to a public forum. It's not just impolite, but unnecessary. More importantly, I fervently assert that you should never, ever publish someone's private email address on a public forum. Ever. I don't know who this person is, but that's personal information, just like a home address or phone number, and publishing it without permission is completely inappropriate.
Granted, so was her calling you an idiot, but two wrongs don't make a right. It's not quite as bad as Sahila's "outing" of an anonymous member here some time back, but it's in the same vein.
Hope I'm not getting myself in trouble here, but you're not just a respected member of the blog, in my opinion you're one of a small handful of "superstars", and you don't need to lower yourself to someone else's standard to make a point.
But that has morphed here into a different kind of speculation. There are two different categories of people related to TfA. Current TfA folks who have had their five weeks of training, and former TfA folks who have survived that, gotten more education education, became fully certified teachers and at that point, got hired by Seattle. As far as I know, Chris and any other "TfA" person currently working in the district as a teacher is in the latter category. I do not believe we in Seattle have had raw TfA folks in classrooms yet, but we have any number of folks who started teaching through TfA.
When and if Seattle Schools gets actual TfA recruits in the classroom, there will certainly be discussion and speculation of that process. So let's not muddy it up with a lot of wrong speculation right now. If Chris was hired in a suspicious manner, then it would a spousal sort of situation (want to offer me a job? find one for my spouse as well.) Which might be improper or it might not. That would depend on lots of things that I just do not know.
Uh, what's impolite is being called an idiot.
grumpy
A Taxpayer
•Research Coordinator at Center on Reinventing Public Education
•Researcher at Harvard University
•Intern, Education Policy at Massachusetts Teachers Association
•Corps Member Advisor at Teach For America
•Founding 7th/8th Grade Mathematics Teacher at KIPP:STAR College Prep Charter School
•Teacher at TeachForAmerica
SC, I think it is high time that you use your real name. Then you may find yourself under the same scrutiny as Eddie, only on the opposite end of the spectrum. It's easy to throw stones at others when you can hide under the cloak of anonymity yourself. You are a public servant, with some pretty strong views. Why not go public with them. Fight for what you believe in. Be as confident in your beliefs, and as brave as, Bree and Eddie are.
Since I did say that in my comment I have to wonder if you actually read what I wrote.
I'm in general agreement with Dorothy's daylighting of a lot of this stuff, and I'd be pretty pissed off as well if someone came in out of the blue and called me an idiot. But you just don't go publishing private email conversations, and you never publish someone's private email address without their consent. That's breach of trust.
On a positive note, it appears (?) that Dorothy has removed that page from dropbox. At least it doesn't load for me anymore. If that's the case, I applaud your change of heart, and I'm ready to hop right back on your bandwagon.
Might it be related to my quoting of previous comments? That's a stretch, but would be nice to know why almost all of my (non-trivial) posts are getting flagged now.
Peon,
Bree and Chris can be braver than some of us because they have Gates and Broad and Burgess behind them. 'nuf said.
Thanks (I guess!). At least it hasn't been just me.
Mel, another comment here is in the spam folder, just after grumpy's last comment. Although it's a bit dated now.