Tuesday, October 01, 2013

Wilson-Pacific; a New Wrinkle

I recently wrote to the Board with some of the bigger ideas that I have heard here and percolated up from the Growth Boundary meetings.   Here's what I told them about Wilson-Pacific:

What I hear from parents is that they do NOT want to share their valuable neighborhood space with any program if they don't have to.  APP is NOT a beloved program and it will not be welcomed with open arms anywhere in the N/NE.  Why set up a situation like that especially if it may end up that the program might need to be exited?

I honestly believe the right course is to leave APP elementary North at Lincoln.  Permanently. (Clearly, not the whole building but it sets up great possibilities.)  You could even have an APP 1-8 there and believe me, it would make many people (pro and con APP) happy. 

But what about Lincoln as a high school?  Look, it is really close to Roosevelt already, has virtually no field space and needs massive updates. 

So the solution looks to be that Wilson-Pacific site - with its huge fields - becomes a middle school and next to that, a high school.  It's a more central location for a high school and the room is there.  


 Then, I see this idea from Kate Martin:

Seattle Public Schools is going to need another high school. It would be great to build on the Licton Springs Community Schools campus concept and grab the North Precinct SPD facility as they are now planning a move up onto Aurora. Adjacency of a high school to the community college and to the elementary and middle schools planned for the Wilson Pacific site would be fantastic.

I have to say - there's a thought.  A high school right next to a community college.  

I know what you're thinking - how could the district buy this?  With what money?  Well, since it is City property and we're talking a school, I think the right deal could be set up (maybe with state money) and it could happen.

Thoughts?

71 comments:

Worried about high school said...

I like both ideas alot. I was worried my kid would end-up at Lincoln for high school which, without fields, etc., wouldn't be the "normal" high school experience.

What would the time frame be on the SPD site? Why not build a WP middle school and high school (since those seems to be most needed RIGHT NOW) at WP and work on getting the land from SPD site and see what is most needed when that transaction happens? How big is the SPD site? Big enough for a high school with fields?

Melissa Westbrook said...

All good questions. I don't know and would have to find out.

Patrick said...

Good idea. I see one possible objection though. Lincoln is such a dump, I hate to send any school there with no hope of ever getting out. Maybe it could be renovated in place, one wing at a time?

Josh Hayes said...

I'd like a better description of this "SPD lot" -- there is, of course, the North Precinct house, but that's hardly a large footprint. Maybe an acre or so, but that's it. Is there some parcel over across College Way, on the NSCC campus, that SPD owns? Or what?

I live about four blocks from there, and I'd be perfectly happy to see that happen, if it makes sense, but until I know what land we're talking about I can't make any sense of it. (The W-P site, of course, I DO know quite well.)

kellie said...

I think a middle school and a high school at Wilson Pacific is a much more effective use of the campus.

Trying to co-locate and elementary program and a middle school program has been extremely challenging. While the campus has quite a bit of space, elementary schools and secondary schools use space very differently. Therefore designing a site plan for 2,000 students over grade bands that extends from very little, possible Pre-K students to full size humans is very space intensive and therefore not space efficient.

However, if the campus were all secondary education, it would be easier to plan the campus and preserve a full size sports field. Moreover, the current plan calls to leave Wilson Pacific as a "practice field" for Lincoln which is just not the same as a full athletic field. (smaller, no lights, no stadium seating)

Folks may be extremely disappointed that a field designed for use for elementary and middle school students is not the same type of field that would be designed for a comprehensive high school.

As side benefit is that Wilson Pacific has much better bus access being located near Aurora and near a community college. I doubt anyone has examined the transit options for getting high school students to Lincoln the likely service areas.

kellie said...

A final note, is that this type of swap should cost neutral or even save money.

BEX IV allocated funds for both a new elementary school and for restoring Lincoln as a high school. Most likely building a new high school on fresh flat piece of property will be less expensive than restoring Lincoln. At least SPS has said in the past that new construction is less expensive than restorations.

I am certain that a change this big is is a bit much late in the process. However, we haven't gotten any updated enrollment projections yet. And if the high schools are all full now, it is very likely that the updated projections will show a very different picture.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Well, and that's one issue of Lincoln versus W-P.

QA kids would have a straight shot up Aurora to W-P. Lincoln, not so much.

Good point on costs - people think renovation is less than a new building and it's not true.

Well, the district staff last night said the boundaries aren't final. The BEX money for World School (in BEX III) disappeared and then reappeared.

Stranger things have happened and I'm hoping we see some REAL questions and REAL political courage from the Board (because I'm not seeing it from the Superintendent).

Josh Hayes said...

FWIW, the 16 bus route winds around Green Lake and then up Meridian and past W-P. It's probably about a ten-minute ride from N. 45th St. in Wallingford. I think that's pretty darn handy.

Not advocating for or against, just a Metro fan!

Crownhill said...

According to the County property records for the North Precinct's parcel, the lot is 121821 sq ft and the existing structure is listed at 16434 sq feet.

Crownhill said...

Ooops hit enter too soon - by contrast, the existing Lincoln site is listed at bldg:194679 sq ft and lot:291726 sq ft and the lot at Wil-Pac is 396175 sq ft.

Charlie Mas said...

Putting the high school at Wilson-Pacific means it can open many years earlier than it would otherwise. And we need it to open years earlier.

Making Lincoln the site for all of north-end 1-8 APP is less disruptive than any other option. 1-5 just stays there and it can roll up in three years or go straight to 6-8 quickly. Kids from 1-8 all ride the same buses saving money on transportation.

1-8 APP at Lincoln gets middle school APP students out of Hamilton and frees up badly needed space that much sooner.

APP 1-8 at Lincoln saves the long schlep to Olympic Hills and Jane Addams and allows that capacity to go to attendance area students - which saves on transportation costs and allows general education north-end families a better chance at a nearby school.

It would mean that all of the new Wilson-Pacific middle school and Jane Addams middle school is available for general education neighborhood students.

It brings all of the final capacity count online that much sooner, accelerating BEX IV projects all over the city.

It's a good idea. Instead of 1-8 APP at Wilson Pacific and a high school at Lincoln, it's 1-8 APP at Lincoln and a high school and a middle school at Wilson-Pacific. A net gain.

Lynn said...

Would keeping APP 1-8 at Lincoln mean the elementary seats planned for Wilson Pacific wouldn't be needed? It does make sense - saves on transportation costs and probably time too.

We need more than 1,600 high school seats. How large a high school could we build at W-P? Should we super-size it? How about an option high school at Marshall once WPMS opens?

Anonymous said...

We Fremont/Frallingford parents were thrilled about the prospect of Lincoln reopening as a high school (especially when Roosevelt and Ballard would be so over-crowded). I expect there'd be disappopintment if the plan suddenly changes. But I doubt anyone will be terribly surprised.

Why wasn't APP asking for the Lincoln building during the BEX IV meetings? Seems that would have been the time to do it.

-- Marceline

Anonymous said...

This is a really nice idea. Neatly solves the lack of field space at Lincoln as well.

Would Lincoln need a remodel to become a 1-8 school?

J

Melissa Westbrook said...

Naturally, Lincoln would need renovations but nothing on the scale of becoming a high school.

Marceline, I think APP didn't ask because it wasn't their idea. Please don't say they are saying this - a lot of other people thought of this.

Again, Lincoln is really close to Roosevelt. We need to spread these buildings out.

Anonymous said...

Please, realize that Lincoln is not designed for an elementary school. It is not a good idea to leave elementary school children there as a long term solution. There is very little play space, no place where additional play structures can be placed, nowhere can the entire school be together for events. Half the students eat lunch in the hallway.

W-P might be better purposed as a MS & HS than what is currently proposed (and, frankly, would benefit my family more), but Lincoln should not be an elementary school for the long term.

Krab

Anonymous said...

I don't see how WP over Lincoln for high school really spreads things out. I think WP is slightly closer to Roosevelt than Lincoln if anything.

Still find the idea promising though.

J

Julie said...

Krab, couldn't more play structure be built on one of the parking lots? As for lunch room and larger assembly halls, a solution can be worked out with some remodeling don't you think? I just think it is a nicer alternative to being shuffled around every couple of years...

Greenwody said...

The current SPD North Precinct building on College Way has some challenges - namely, it's slowly sinking into a wetland. They can't expand the building because of those issues, which is why SPD is moving it to a new site. Creative thinking and I applaud the concept but I doubt that a high school would work there. The idea of leaving APP at Lincoln and hosting a middle and a high school at W-P does make a ton of sense.

dylanw said...

I don't think I like it.

1. Where do you put the North Precinct if you put the high school on top of it? The lack of open property in the north is everyone's problem, not just SPS. I can't think of any obvious places within a mile of Licton Springs that would work.

2. I don't think SPD would be willing to lose such a central location.

3. A high school has a much larger footprint than an elementary school, so more of those fields would be wiped out by physical plant. And sports fields are very, very dear -- remember, that was a fundamental argument against the new Thornton Creek building.

4. You're going to put a ~1500 person high school next to a 1000 student high school. Blanchet is already a nightmare to drive around during the school rush. 85th is a mess.

5. The BEX IV plan was for a full-on renovation of Lincoln, which desperately needs it. Build W-P HS and you can't renovate Lincoln. The numbers just don't add up. At least I can't get them to.

I support centralizing APP in W-P and not splitting them with Oly Hills and Jane Addams. Sticking a high school there, though, seems a bridge too far.

dylanw said...

Again, Lincoln is really close to Roosevelt. We need to spread these buildings out.

Lincoln to Roosevelt: 2.5 miles
W-P to Roosevelt: 2.5 miles

Um.

Anonymous said...

Julie,

The parking lot is across the one available lane for bus traffic.

There are no bathrooms on the same floor as the cafeteria. I know that sounds silly, but sending a first grader, without supervision, through the building to find a bathroom, just doesn't work. (And neither does finding or paying for additional staff to ferry them.)

Getting little legs down the large number of stairs to the existing play spaces (let alone one in the parking lot) for the quantity of allotted recess time is almost impossible.

The building was designed for adult-sized people with teenage needs... Not 6-12 year olds.

Krab

Anonymous said...

The bus lane can be rerouted, into a curve around a new playground space. Just takes paint. I will go do it myself if that is an honest sticking point. I don't mind going upstairs for the bathroom- my kids have had to go farther as first graders at other schools. I also think we could all use more stairs in our lives! The stairways are excellent display places for community art and activity. Several story buildings are good uses of scarce land. I know we are all used to brand spanking new buildings built to spec, for each school, because of the way our funding model works, but not all cities do it this way, and it's a good building we can make work. And we wouldn't have to start from scratch again so soon after the last move.

I don't know if it will fly, but I am really for it.
-sleeper

Anonymous said...

@Krab Lincoln has that giant auditorium with a atage. I am pretty sure the whole school fits in there, with lots of room on the floor in front for even more.

@dylanw SPD has already announced their plan to build a new precinct on the SE corner of Aurora and 125th.

Northend Mama

kellie said...

@ dylanw

They are already putting two buildings on the Wilson Pacific campus (an elementary and a middle school). The footprint for a middle and high school would be the same footprint and actually preserve more field space.

The field planned for the elementary use would not be the same as a field planned for high school use.

former dragon said...

My APP student came up with a great solution for north end APP location. Switch the kids at Lincoln to HIMS and ALL the kids at HIMS to Lincoln. Lincoln is more suited for a MS population, has a big enough auditorium for concerts, assemblies and graduation. (HIMS has to use Lincoln for these things anyway). Sure HIMS is not designed for elementary, but NEITHER IS LINCOLN. A few tweaks, and I think HIMS could be a lovely elementary school. It is actually kind of a small-scale school, due to being designed and built in the 20s. Problem. Solved.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Dylan, North Precinct is moving so there's that.

Blanchet is not "next" to Wilson-Pacific. It's blocks away and W-P has a lot more area for buses than Blanchet (I used to live right there.)

No, you would build the middle/high school at W-P and not do the total thing to Lincoln. BUT Lincoln could be revamped for elementary kids.

Even if the distance is the same, getting there is better at W-P than Lincoln.

This idea of the North Precinct use was just floated.

It's called brainstorming.

Anonymous said...

Well, all issues are fixable, given enough funds, or have a work-around, or are non-issues in another's opinion. However, I don't think Lincoln makes for a "normal" elementary school experience -- and IMO makes for a difficult experience.

If your argument is that it shouldn't be a high-school because it doesn't have athletic fields and is therefore "not normal," than I would say it is closer to a normal high school experience than elementary. But I went to a middle school and high school without fields.

Krab

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Maureen said...

District Map shows that WP is approximately the same distance from Roosevelt as Lincoln. Lincoln is closer to QA/Mag (stupid condos!) but it's not clear it's more accessible by Metro. WP is a pretty fantastic location for Metro coverage: the 48, 358 and (as Josh points out) the 16 all drop within easy walking distance. Sort of crazy to waste that space on a K-5 (especially with Bagley so close--though Bagley needs to be expanded even for it's current populaiton.)

Anonymous said...

"I think APP didn't ask because it wasn't their idea. Please don't say they are saying this - a lot of other people thought of this."

So then why didn't the a-lot-of-other-people ask for the Lincoln building for APP when the BEX IV meetings were happening? It was announced pretty early on that Lincoln was to be reopened as a high school. (And if they're not the ones asking, does APP even want to stay at Lincoln in the long term?)

I'm guessing this proposal is only coming up now because we only recently learned that the district plans to co-locate APP with a neighborhood school. I do agree that APP should have their own dedicated building. Just feeling a disappointed that it might happen at the expense of the high school we were hoping for ("normal" or otherwise).

-- Marceline

Lynn said...

Marceline,

We are becoming concerned about high school seats - they're going to be needed soon. A high school at WP could be completed earlier than the planned Lincoln renovation. It's got nothing to do with APP.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Melissa, I think that's a brilliant idea. Why didn't it come up before? Have you/others floated it with the Board/District?

Krab, you're not going to do APP any favors by crying wolf over 7 year olds not being able to find their own way to/from the bathroom when it's on a different floor from the cafeteria. When I was that age, I was walking 1/2 a mile to/from school with the 2 kids on my block without adult supervision. Somehow we managed to find the bathrooms at school, too.

Often children rise to the occasion when they realize we expect them to be able to handle increased responsibility, and I'd expect this to be even more so of APP kids. Some kids at my daughter's school were making their own way home when they were in 1st grade, so I'm sure APP 1st graders can find a bathroom in a timely manner if they put their minds to it.

(Note: I am not in any way anti-APP. My school age kid is eligible APP, though not enrolled in the program as our school is meeting her needs).

--flibbertigibbet

Anonymous said...

Responding to a couple points (repasted b/c I forgot to sign the other):

Capacity of Lincoln as 1-8 APP: Lincoln could house the APP elem. with space left for a small co-tenant (not a neighborhood school, but a special program), but it could NOT fit APP 1-8, as Charlie has suggested. 600 APP elem. plus 800 - 900 MS = 1400 - 1500 kids, many at the lower kids/per class utilization of elem. grades. Come one Charlie, do the math. They cannot fit together in Lincoln. So the APP MS has to go somewhere else anyway.

Lincoln's appropriateness for elem kids:
Responding to all the various people who say Lincoln's not fit for elem students: What? What are you talking about? Call the place Hogwarts, put up a few holographic portraits, and you're good.

Seriously, a playground is do-able ... if the building's actually given over to APP, and the district isn't putting a lot of requirements on the space to keep it "interim" or "high school ready." The buses could be either curved around a playscape -- great idea, by the way. Or like at most of the elem. schools in this city, they could install a "No Parking Bus Zone" on both streets and ... use it for buses! East bound buses could park on north-one way Woodlawn to make a right onto 45th, and west bound buses could park heading south on Interlake to make right and right again onto Stoneway. Frankly, better than current system where all buses can't fit in the parking lot, and have to wait a second turn to load, and many buses have to make lefts onto 45th (have you TRIED that?)

[UPDATE: Okay, I got the door to curb side wrong on that analysis... so the city would have to change the one-way directions which are only for those single blocks anyway, not for the rest of the street, to let buses park with their doors at the curbs - this is completely doable b/c the one-way is only there based around the school]

Holy cow, there's four gyms (2 free standing, 2 more gorgeous gyms in the basement through the off limits area past the wall of mirrors, though a couple sets of auto-locking doors, down some unlit concrete stairwell ... and there's a suspended aerial track or maybe velodrome, don't know what it was b/c it's too weird -- totally cool death trap. But seriously, there's some fun stuff down in the off limits parts). They could build an indoor playground in the basement if they were allowed to alter the building!

And for cafeterias, Lincoln's is crummy, no question, but it's still WAY better than BF Day's or Greenlake's (although the latter is appropriately getting a new cafeteria. The former is merely getting a lot more kids).

Is the inappropriate for little kids comment about the steps? Elem. age kids go up and down and up and down up steps ALL THE TIME in other historic buildings - Greenwood, BF Day, Loyal Heights, etc. Steps are good for them. One more elevator would be nice, and could perhaps be stuck on the building near one of the back doors, but steps are not a reason to declare the school unfit for little kids. The administration has chosen to house the fifth and 1st graders on the main floor - they could move the big kids up top if they wanted too. If the building was renovated, perhaps they could occupy more of the main floor, and have fewer kids up high. Who knows.

I have seen no reason here or in other blogs that justifies stating that Lincoln is not fit for little kids. The building is larger, yes, but not particularly different than several other historic buildings used for elem. schools.

Signed: APP@Hogwarts

Anonymous said...

Reposting Anonymous' comments (at 11:26pm) so they don't get deleted:

Anonymous said...

Responding to a couple points:

Capacity of Lincoln as 1-8 APP: Lincoln could house the APP elem. with space left for a small co-tenant (not a neighborhood school, but a special program), but it could NOT fit APP 1-8, as Charlie has suggested. 600 APP elem. plus 800 - 900 MS = 1400 - 1500 kids, many at the lower kids/per class utilization of elem. grades. Come one Charlie, do the math. They cannot fit together in Lincoln. So the APP MS has to go somewhere else anyway.

Lincoln's appropriateness for elem kids:
Responding to all the various people who say Lincoln's not fit for elem students: What? What are you talking about? Call the place Hogwarts, put up a few holographic portraits, and you're good.

Seriously, a playground is do-able ... if the building's actually given over to APP, and the district isn't putting a lot of requirements on the space to keep it "interim" or "high school ready." The buses could be either curved around a playscape -- great idea, by the way. Or like at most of the elem. schools in this city, they could install a "No Parking Bus Zone" on both streets and ... use it for buses! East bound buses could park on north-one way Woodlawn to make a right onto 45th, and west bound buses could park heading south on Interlake to make right and right again onto Stoneway. Frankly, better than current system where all buses can't fit in the parking lot, and have to wait a second turn to load, and many buses have to make lefts onto 45th (have you TRIED that?)

Holy cow, there's four gyms (2 free standing, 2 more gorgeous gyms in the basement through the off limits area past the wall of mirrors, though a couple sets of auto-locking doors, down some unlit concrete stairwell ... and there's a suspended aerial track or maybe velodrome, don't know what it was b/c it's too weird -- totally cool death trap. But seriously, there's some fun stuff down in the off limits parts). They could build an indoor playground in the basement if they were allowed to alter the building!

And for cafeterias, Lincoln's is crummy, no question, but it's still WAY better than BF Day's or Greenlake's (although the latter is appropriately getting a new cafeteria. The former is merely getting a lot more kids).

Is the inappropriate for little kids comment about the steps? Elem. age kids go up and down and up and down up steps ALL THE TIME in other historic buildings - Greenwood, BF Day, Loyal Heights, etc. Steps are good for them. One more elevator would be nice, and could perhaps be stuck on the building near one of the back doors, but steps are not a reason to declare the school unfit for little kids. The administration has chosen to house the fifth and 1st graders on the main floor - they could move the big kids up top if they wanted too. If the building was renovated, perhaps they could occupy more of the main floor, and have fewer kids up high. Who knows.

I have seen no reason here or in other blogs that justifies stating that Lincoln is not fit for little kids. The building is larger, yes, but not particularly different than several other historic buildings used for elem. schools.

-------

-flibbertigibbet

Anonymous said...

Oops, APP@Hogwarts - apologies for reposting your comment just as you did.

Incidentally I went to a school v. much like Hogwarts: old Victorian mansion converted into a school, with turrets, 4 - 5 floors, depending on which part of the building you were in, hidden staircases, long, winding corridors and rumors (among the boarders) of ghosts. Naturally, it was a long walk up/down multiple stairs/corridors to the bathrooms (and girls & boys were at opposite ends of the school), and yet somehow kids as young as 5 managed to find them on a daily basis, without supervision. As I said in my earlier post, kids rise to the occasion.

-flibbertigibbet

mirmac1 said...

Sounds like a reasonable option to me. If it accomplishes two things: a) provides an adequate/acceptable building for APP; and b) provides for MS/HS growth in that sector; and finally c) introduces the least disruption to functional, reasonable boundaries already in place... Then it sounds good to me.

kellie said...

Several folks have asked, why didn't this idea or similar ideas come up sooner?

While, I generally despise the phrase, "the situation is evolving," in this case, the situation really is evolving.

Buildings are expensive and generations have to live with the decisions regarding opening and closing and selling buildings. Buildings are typically planned for 50-100 years and therefore decisions regarding new buildings are usually based on the most conservative data.

The bulk of BEX planning was based on projections based on 2011 enrollment information. When the projections were updated with 2012 information and another additional 1500 students. It became clear that a few items went from "might need" to "desperately" need.

Most of these boundary plans are based on enrollment projections based on 2012 enrollment information, which showed that high capacity was "becoming an issue." It is pretty reasonable to presume that when the projections are updated based on the actual 2013 enrollment, it will become clear that high school capacity is a much bigger deal than it was based on 2012 enrollment data.

I think this is a good idea because my best guess is that we are going to need high school relief much sooner than the BEX plan but the evidence will arrive soon. The new computer system this year has delayed the updated enrollment information.

Melissa Westbrook said...

I will also state that the BEX list is somewhat fluid.

The law makes it that way, the district has treated it that way in the past and that we are having these discussions (and apparently the Board is listening) means the BEX list can be modified.

My basic pleas (so far) to the Board:
- rethink Wilson-Pacific
- rethink World School (if only to find them a truly permanent home which I don't believe, in the long run, TT Minor is) - but that might mean leased space a la Center School.
- rethink those Beacon Hill walk zones (or reexamine them) and any others that show early signs of problems. That so many of them affect Title One schools is troubling.

Carol Simmons said...

Please do not forget how important it is to "revitalize" the Indian Heritage Program/School and return it to its home at the sacred Licton Springs site. There is no more underserved student population in our schools than our Native students.

NW mum said...

Anybody else concerned about no Option school in proposed boundaries for W-P MS catchment area?

Melissa Westbrook said...

You know, Carol, I would think that would go without saying but you're right.

Anonymous said...

Not a problem if it's APP, about the option schools, right? and maybe there'd be room at the campus for the Heritage program, too, between the middle school not filling up until 2020, and a high school campus next door.

I think with all the people working on this problem we have chances to come up with a lot of win-win solutions.

-sleeper

mirmac1 said...

I would add rethink plunking K-5 STEM in the Boren Building.

Anonymous said...

Kellie or anyone else -
When are the new updated enrollment data expected?
Thanks

NW mum said...

Sleeper,
You consider APP a legitimate Option School?

I believe 98% of students have no chance to attend.

Heritage is culturally focused.
Another option that is not an option for the general population.

katie said...

Here is the history of the Lincoln building.

It is going to be expensive to make this a high school. The whole thing is just a cobbled together network of additions with a variety of components from every decade. That makes the Wilson Pacific idea look even better.

Anonymous said...

Wallingford Calling.

We want our high school back.

That is all.

Sincerely, "Resident"

Anonymous said...

I was not aware that Licton Springs was considered a sacred site to Native Americans. This changes a lot. It is a clear reason to locate the Native American program at Wilson Pacific. A much stronger argument than the Middle College is in a mall cause it really isn't. Like the Center school, the Middle College at Northgate is in an office area and is a great location according to my cousin who is a teacher there.

A clear cultural connection to the land is a very powerful argument.

HP

Maureen said...

NW mum, I'm assuming sleeper meant that if WP is an APP only school, it wouldn't have an associated attendance area, so wouldn't need an associated Option School. (Students who live around the WP site would have access to the Option school(s) associated with their address (Salmon Bay?).)

Anonymous said...

KUOW now running piece with defenders of Garfield's froshing.

As I posted yesterday, readers will be surprised how entrenched and accepted -by many current school parents!who looked forward to this tradition for their own students this is. The vibe coming from a significant section of Garfield community today is MYOB. Yes, families are angry with Mr. Howard for assuming authority on non-school premises,as opposed to being angry with the students. Students who don't participate in froshing are defending those who do.

Can forces outside the school force a change? I have doubts given the tolerance in much of the community itself - both kid and adult who are saying Chillax.

Also, the district official response seemed pretty tepid. Anyone notice? "School district spokeswoman Teresa Wippel called it a “tradition” among the school’s students, one the school is continuing to work to stamp out."


"Been There"

Lynn said...

NW Mum,

I think the point was that each middle school attendance area has to have an option school. If Wilson Pacific Middle School were to be all-APP, it would not have an attendance area. (It would be a service school I believe - but definitely not an option school.)

Carol Simmons said...

Yes HP.
Regarding the placement of the Indian Heritage School/Program on the Licton Springs site, as you mentioned "a clear cultural connection to the land is a powerful argument." Hopefully this connection will be respected and honored.

The springs served as a location for spiritual gatherings for the Duwamish peoples where they would gather annually. An Indian friend shared with me recently that she still visits the springs for their healing powers.

There is an excellent article posted by Matt Remle in Lastrealindians.com-sacred-rites of saving licton springs" which discusses the District's plans concerning Licton Springs and the Indian Heritage Program/School.


Thank you for your interest.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Resident, and that sentiment would be fine IF every neighborhood had a high school. They don't and Lincoln has not been a permanent high school in a long time.

I understand where you are coming from but consider other neighborhoods as well.

Anonymous said...

Yes Melissa, but no other neighborhood has a Seattle public high school building sitting here waiting to be occupied. We have dealt with Lincoln being an interim site for a long time now. We are ready to welcome home a resident high school population.

I encourage you to visit families in this area and on Queen Anne who still look at the sold off building with anger. To be told that all bets are off and the kids are headed for Wilson Pacific would be taken very hard.

We are considering other neighborhoods. Wilson Pacific should be redeveloped, but not as a replacement for Lincoln.

Sincerely, "Resident"

Anonymous said...

Yes, that is what I meant- there would be no w-p catchment area, so everyone would still have option schools. Thanks for clarifying that for me, Maureen and Lynn.

-sleeper

Anonymous said...

In spite of the sinking swampiness of the SPD land, I think the district should seriously consider obtaining any extra real estate they can. I mean, it would be better to get Oak Tree back, but how likely is that? I'm sure we can find a use for it - Native American Heritage? Pinehurst? Interim? You name it, we need it.

Chris S.

Anonymous said...

Also.... "Normal" is long gone. "Safe" is on its way out the door. Welcome to SPS.

chris S.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Resident, no one said that "all bets are off." I didn't and no one has the power to say anything is a done deal. It's an idea. Also, it would easier for QA students to get to W-P than Lincoln.

I have long advocated and told the story of how losing QA High was one of the worst mistakes this district ever made. I just told a tableful of Coe parents this at the Meany meeting.

Chris S., yes, that's pretty much the situation.

Anonymous said...

"Resident" - perhaps you were not close enough to Lincoln when it was used by Ballard to know how badly those HS students with cars clogged the streets in the morning and afternoons? They'd frequently drive 40mph down some of the side streets in an effort to get to school on time, Plus, parking is hard enough in Wallingford, and when the HS students couldn't park in the parking lot, they parked everywhere else. I can't tell you how many times access to our driveway was blocked or partially blocked by a HS student's car. And the before school/after school traffic made 45th, Stone, Interlake, and many of those other small side streets an absolute mess - way worse than they are now. WP has much better access to major arterials - and Metro routes - and I would much prefer Lincoln to be used by elementary or MS students.

Another "resident"

Anonymous said...

As a fellow Wallingfordian, I'd have to agree with "another resident". I don't really care much about a high school in Wallingford.

I'd also be more than fine with my kids going to a high school at WP. It's straight shot up the 16 from Lincoln (and much of Wallingford) to WP.

With different programs like IB, BioTech, etc., it's not also clear whether my kids would prefer the closest high school or not. I'm much more concerned about capacity and choice than location.

J

Anonymous said...

I wish that this blog had the like button as in FB. I would

Like Kellie at 5:26 pm and 5:30
like Mellissa
Like Charlie Mas EXCEPT that I don't think it should be a 1-8. APP kids need to go off to middle school too. Besides, the projections would have it outgrow Lincoln pretty quickly with a 1-8.

double like Julie's comment about Lincoln not being the greatest building but a much better alternative to being shuffled around every few years.

triple like sleepers positive attitude and great ideas for solutions on how we can spruce up the building.

but...dislike "I don't think Lincoln makes for a "normal" elementary school experience -- and IMO makes for a difficult experience."

Hold on one minute. How, then, is it ok to "temporarily" locate 600 elementary school kids (and by temporarily I mean for 6 years!) in this building?

I don't get it. It is some how ok to shove these kids into a building that is oversized "temporarily" but when it is suggest to make it their actual school for the long term it is a "difficult" experience.

What is really difficult is that these kids keep getting punted to new locations every few years, and we are squatting in a building that we can't really make any improvements to because it isn't ours.

As a brand spanking new parent in this district with a first grader at Lincoln, I personally would much prefer for the building to become ours permanently, and let the WP site be a middle school and high school. It is a much better alternative for SOOOOOO many reasons, and the ONLY draw back I see is that the building isn't ideal. But it is standing, and it isn't filled with mold and the high ceilings are kind of nice.

Yes it is a funky space. My daughter has the upper locker and she can barely open it. Her rain coat has been there since the first day of school when I hung it up for her because she can't reach it and keep forgetting to ask her teacher to help her get it down.

Reality check: There is a real lack of buildings in the district.
APP will already be bursting out of WP elementary before it even opens.
We need a high school to come on line sooner.

What are the priorities?

ok, rant over.
Eden
Eden





The reality is that come 2017 APP will not fit in the WP elementary building. And we need will need more high school space.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and I quadruple like APP@hogwarts. yes, yes and yes!!!
Eden

Melissa Westbrook said...

Eden, for someone new, you're a fast learner.

Number one (with a rocket) - we have almost zero inventory and cannot build fast enough.

Anonymous said...

Word on the street is the district is redrafting the growth boundary plan. Stay tuned.

watching&waiting

Anonymous said...

It's not "word on the street" that the boundary plan is being redrafted. That was the plan the whole time. The district said it would take community input, update the plan, and redistribute. Of course a second version is coming out. Not everything has to be a conspiracy theory. Sheesh.

Meeting Attendee

Anonymous said...

It's not clear from the timeline when a re-drafted proposal is due to be released. Is there a date scheduled for the release of any revisions before the staff presents them to the board?

Thanks,
TC

Lynn said...

TC,

My guess is that it will discussed at the executive committee meeting on October 9th. I hope the updated presentation will be available online before the meeting.

mirmac1 said...

Don't count on it Lynn. I'm sure they'll "embargo" it until right before the meeting. Got to have that element of *Surprise!*

Anonymous said...

"former dragon" suggested flipping the Hamilton and Lincoln populations -- I'm old enough to remember when the Hamilton community was told that once all those BEX projects were finished using Lincoln as a home away from home, it would be remodeled as the "new" Hamilton MS

sandi kurtz