Transportation Update from School Board Mtg

Finally at this discussion at 9:15 p.m.

Basically, there is one proposal plus two alternatives. I haven't seen alts but staff doesn't seem enthused.

Staff says there were 21 start times and this would get it down to 8.

As well, this current proposal would be "temporary" in service to later/better bell times in 1-2 years. That sounds great but what happens when we get there and whoops? Can't change those times then?
  I would want a guarantee that any changes for 2012-2013 are TEMPORARY with a set endtime.

Update:  Dorothy Neville says that Transportation said the EXACT same thing three years ago when the NSAP was rolled out.  Meaning, "this is temporary, we'll save money, better service, will have a taskforce."  No taskforce ever came about and they say there is one now.

 There are "civil twilight" issues which I can't speak to but it is a legal issue around children being out in the dark during certain hours and at certain ages.

 Olga Addae, SEA, spoke to this in her remarks because if some students get to school earlier, even 10 minutes, that means adults have watch those children and it impacts teacher/staff contracts.

 Marty McLaren worried about lack of Metro routes and lateness of students to schools in West Seattle. One Metro bus is so full that students are standing there and bus passes them by. Metro did not respond so SPS had to put in yellow bus for them.

Betty Patu asked about when parents would know about this issue. She said we need to start involving parents and community.

 DeBell says we are in final stages for budget and may have to go to RIFs if they don't find the savings to cover Transportation costs.

 Carr likes alternative #2 so far.

This is a "short-gap shot" for next year and knew they would not have time for public input for 2012-2013 but would from Transportation Taskforce for future. (So this was a go-around for public input and staff obviously was hoping this wouldn't matter to the Board.)

 Board seems understanding to staff but concerned for students and parents.

 I will try to get links to the alts tomorrow.

Comments

Sorry, this is off my iPad which does not configure well with Blogger. Will correct for easier reading later.
Juana said…
As is his recent habit, can DeBell limit the number of questions to be asked by directors on an issue?
Juana said…
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Johnny Calcagno said…
Does anybody know why Tom Bishop is gone?
Johnny Calcagno said…
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Anonymous said…
No, they will NOT institute a Transportation Taskforce for NEXT year. They will do it NOW. FOUR (@*#@(*# YEARS after parents apparently begged for it according to this blog.

We will NOT let the lack of compentence of the underachieving downtown staff or the woe is me faces of DeBell and his board mean our kids are getting on a bus at an insane 6:30 or getting home at ridiculously after 5. NOT EVEN FOR ONE YEAR. BECAUSE IT IS THEIR FAULT THEY HAVEN'T DEALT WITH IT OR INFORMED UMMMM THE PARENTS AND KIDS. What????Did they think they'd just sneak something this pathetic through on a late night meeting?

This is anti-student and anti-family and it is completely wrong. "Just one year" is bull)(@#*#@.

SPITTING MAD
Anonymous said…
Isn't this mess partially due to grandfathering of students at non-attendance area schools being guaranteed busing for a certain # of years? Do we know how many students eligible for transportation actually use it? I know some districts charge a nominal fee for bus transportation. I know that that wouldn't be a favorable proposal here in Seattle, yet would people be willing to pay a bus fee (similar to athletic fee, pay for K, etc...) if it would mean less variance in the start/end times?
Anonymous said…
Does anybody know proposed k5 start times for sept? I've heard as late as 9.20. What about working families?

Parent
Sahila said…
This is purely and simply poor management of resources and contracts...

SPS parents are sick & tired of this money game being played out at their children's expense.... budgeting is not rocket science...there are multiple ways to save money in this district;

SPS people are lacking in basic project management skills/feedback loop understanding; we'd save millions if we addressed that...

and, seeing its our children's best interests the district is supposed to serve, what would help the district the most in doing that, would be for staff to ask themselves "would this be acceptable to me, for my child?"
Anonymous said…
Riding in The Clown Car says...

I am reading Melissa's post with jaw dropped. This is either a new low for SPS administration(embezzlement is in its own separate class) or a complete joke. So to recap:

1) The board itself admits to no public notification of a change with monumental implications for students and families. And they sneak the proposal onto the agenda after open enrollment ends.

2)In tonight's meeting, 2 alternatives to this stinkbomb plan are apparently presented (Carr prefers one of them?) yet there is no information for the public about the alternatives. What are the damn alternatives? Where are the damn alternatives?

3) No one...not board, not staff, has information on what schools the stinkbomb might land on.

4) The board murmurs "only for a year" and "we'll put together a task force". They think this is reassuring? Or acceptible?

5) There apparently has been no input from principals and teachers as to the learning impact on little kids plopped on a bus at 6:10 a.m. every day? (The proposal says 1 hour bus rides are possible. Bus dropoff for some schools would be 7:10 a.m. That makes a 6:10 a.m. bus stop folks.)

Anyone at JSIS sane, caring or even competent? Hello? Hello?
Charlie Mas said…
I don't know if it is directly related to his career change, but Mr. Bishop suffered a terrible tragedy in his family. I would not jump to any conclusions about why Mr. Bishop is no longer in his previous role with the District.
Charlie Mas said…
I have heard this story before. "It's just for a year. We'll put together a better plan for next year."

They say that EVERY year, particularly about Transportation.

Every thing about this stinks.

The timing - after Open Enrollment - stinks.

The money news - increased costs and busted budgets - stinks.

The total refusal to engage families stinks.

The total refusal to engage the Board stinks.

The bus times stink.

The early mornings for high school and middle school stink.

The late mornings for elementary schools stink.

The idea of middle and high school students let out at 2:00pm really stinks. What are they going to do at home for three hours before any adults get there?

The idea of elementary kids getting home so late stinks.

This is all predicated on the need for three tiers and the assumption that a three-tier schedule saves money. That is not in evidence.

The presumption that high school students can't start later due to sports is a completely ass-backwards set of priorities. All students must suffer academically so that a few students, on a few select days of the year, can more conveniently play games with schools in other districts? That stinks.
lendlees said…
After staying up to watch, the one comment that stuck with me and I will be writing the board about, was the one about community stops. Specifically, how Transportation didn't want to create more community stops to shorten bus times.

Not sure how 'not wanting kids waiting around in a group' is worse than 'having lots of kids on a bus for a longer time earlier/later in the day'.

The community stop that I've observed this year is working great--kids get to the stop right before the bus picks up and leave when they are dropped off. The stop is in very public place so, if the pack mentality starts up, there are usually lots of folks around to shut it down. The only reason kids would be waiting longer...is if the bus is LATE.
SP said…
How can any Board member look families in the eye and say "we have no choice---and, it's only for one year"? Just because Carr gave the transportation dep't the challenge of coming up with a plan to cut the overall budget, doesn't mean that the plan has to be accepted as the only solution.

On top of all of the same old recycled excuses (for 3 years now?), there was a new one slipped in (around 9:40 at the end of the conversation), that Bob Westgard mentioned- they finally report that Cleveland costs "100's of thousands of dollars" more because of their different schedule. How about a specific number like $240,000 or $626,000? This can add up to a large portion of the $1M shortfall they are trying to cover on the backs of our kids.

Can't they narrow it down more? Where is this shown in the budget and where does this money come from (what gets cut because of this?). Why isn't there a plan to lower those Cleveland bussing costs also?
Maureen said…
I have no faith that a transportation Taskforce will ever exist. As Spitting points out, the Board has been throwing out that phrase for FOUR years and NO effort at all has ever gone into actually forming it. I had real hopes when they hired Erinn Bennett as Board Manager that things like that would actually progress, but as far as I can see,she is just another staff member to do Holly Ferguson's bidding.

Do we have any idea what is stopping them from implementing the future "better" proposal THIS YEAR? Is it a real impediment?

I, for one, wish Tom Bishop well. Our community found him willing to actually listen to constructive input from families and incorporate new information into his planning.
Anonymous said…
Can someone explain to me why elementary schools are affected by high school start times? Don't high schoolers use metro? Why does this affect yellow bus schedules? Ditto for middle school, since most of these ride metro as well? Why do they need to start so early?

I want to get my facts straight before I start bombarding the board and urging my friends to do the same. The third tier elementary afternoon drop- off times are insane.

3rd Tier Mom
Unbelievable said…
Okay, so...the current 3-tier system doesn't work, so we'll try a NEW 3-tier system? What makes them think that the same 3-tier system, with completely horrible, unacceptable start times, will suddenly save more money than the current one?

Isn't this the defintion of insanity?
mirmac1 said…
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mirmac1 said…
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Maureen said…
Anonymous at 11:00, you will be deleted--pick an alias.

It seems to me that grandfathering must be pretty much over by now. I'm not going to bother trying to dig up the records from the scrubbed down SPS web site, can someone whose kid is in the last year grandfathered weigh in? In any event, last years total redo of bus zones seemed to me to wipe out those kids transportation rights for neighborhood schools(they may have snuck back in though)

High Schools are all supposed to be on Metro, but areas that are underserved by Metro, special ed and some really whiney people still get yellow buses. It does seem strange that so (presumably) few buses drive the schedule for the thousands of K-5 kids.

I think they just need to suck it up and flip the HS and K-5 schedules for next year and shift the whole thing a little later (no 7:10 drop off tier). Let the coaches sort out the sports issues themselves. Oh (insane thought here) SKIP sports for a year!

This issue makes me so crazy I can't hold on to my normal sunny persona.
Anonymous said…
This is personal for my kid, friends' kids, school kids. Now I will be personal for the board.

DeBell: You look tired. Don't take it out on our kids. You have seen this problem for years and have done little. This 'proposal' is the worst ever and as president you let it come before the board? Fix it now. Fix it right.

Smith-Blum: Your head is in the clouds with green buildings and innovative class set ups. Can you not address the basics? Fix it now. Fix it right.

Martin-Morris: I watched you last night. You are proud that you've written some obscure report about some national conference and yet you contribute NOTHING to a baseline and urgent local problem? How embarrassing for you. You are not a leader. You are a junket junkie. Fix it now. Fix it right.

Carr: You proudly rest on your Boeing management resume in Board meeting after meeting. And you let a POS proposal like this show up last minute and wreak havoc? There isn't even documentation available? Is this how Boeing builds airplanes? Fix it now. Fix it right.

Patu: You said last night that we need community input. Make it THIS year not on some committee next year. Fix it now. Fix it right.

Peaslee: Welcome to the board. Do something. Would you have put your little kids on a bus at 6:30 every day and then asked them to learn? Doubt it. Fix it now. Fix it right.

MacLaren: Welcome to the board. Do something. As a West Seattleite I expect you to be responsive to the community. Remember Sunquist and his refusal to fix the capacity problems? Transportation in West Seattle = same problem. Advocate for your community. This proposal is crap. It went around parents. It hurts our kids. Fix it now. Fix it right.

DistrictWatcher
Someone said…
I believe these are the "alts" as described in one of the docs linked to Board agenda last night

ALTERNATIVES
1. The Board could choose to return to the 60 minute standard ride time used five years ago. This is not recommended as the District’s ability to limit transportation costs using three tiers would be limited (more buses would be required).

2. The Board could choose to not revise the Transportation Service Standards approved in February of this year. This is not recommended as it would require substantial cuts in other programs for the 2012 – 2013 school year.

3. The Board could direct staff to implement longer ride-times and other service reductions (such as restricting bus transportation to neighborhood schools for students outside of the walk zones) in order to generate further cost savings. However, this is not recommended for 2012 – 2013 as:
o Many families have selected schools (during open enrollment) based on information that transportation would be provided; and
o Changes in school selection at this time would adversely affect the schools because of resulting budget and staff reallocations

4. The Board could choose to delay action on revision of Transportation Service Standards. This is not recommended as the Transportation Office is beginning to develop bus routes for the 2012 – 2013 school year. Delays will compromise the district’s ability to:
o Realize cost reductions; and
o Provide improved transportation services at the start of the school year.
Anonymous said…
I would like to say writing a polite, data infused and rational letter to the board would work on this issue. I would like to say that lining up parents and teachers as speakers on this issue will be effective. I would like to say all of this but I cant. The board will shake their heads thoughtfully, Sherry Car will look concerned with a furrowed brow, Michael De Bell will say, "I have concerns", and then they will vote it in anyways.

There is also no use to thinking this will be temporary. They have been saying this for the past three years. I have been in community meetings with Michael De Bell where he says, "We will do this for one year, and then re-evaluate". Right, Michael.

They don't listen, they don't care and there is nothing you can do.

Should you still try? Yes. I wrote a letter, I told all my friends, I began spreading the word. Do I think it will do any good? NO.

Signed, Been there, Done that
Anonymous said…
3rd Tier Mom -middle schoolers still have yellow bus service as far as I know. Not sure if that's true for all MS or not though, some may take Metro.

If Charlie is right and after school sports is one of the primary driving focus on this, then have HS start later (a plus for our sleep deprived teens) and sports can be BEFORE school (that exercise will get them going). A minority of sports playing teens shouldn't drive the entire bus system that affects K-8 and start times for all kids. That is madness.

(middle school mom)
Anonymous said…
Hale starts at 8:30 and ends at 3. They don't seem to have a problem with sports. Sometimes the teams leave a little early but the school seems to have figured out a way to work around it. The swim team does practice before school at Meadowbrook Pool.

FHP
Anonymous said…
I'm really confused about the high school start time affecting yellow bus service. The vast majority of high school students, those who live within, I believe, 2.5 miles of the school, arrive at school under their own power. Those beyond that get Metro bus passes. The only high school populations receiving yellow bus service are some APP (Magnolia and West Seattle, I think) students and some special ed students. It is such a tiny fraction of the high school population that I have a hard time understanding how this small number can't be easily worked into a more reasonable solution.

One year and one month to go
Steve said…
Since I don't think any of the "cost savings" from the various transportation changes in the past few years have ever been made public, would it be worthwhile to do a public records request to try to obtain these materials if the board isn't asking for them? I've never done that, but will if it's not going to be a dead end.

Sometimes I think the District is just trying to make bus transportation so awful that no one uses it, and presto!...cost savings when they cut it!
I would tell you that every one of you should go to your PTA and tell them to write a letter and put this info into kid mail.

I will try to write something up later today as a template.

And, I have never seen Maureen without a smile. If she's not sunny, then it IS really an issue.
Jet City mom said…
I think it is a good idea to have sports practice before school or high schoolers, I always had PE first period which worked. ( our school also didn't start till 8am., much better out come than for D, whose school not only started at 7:30, but she was assigned physics first period)

But I also don't understand if high schoolers are taking metro, why their school start times affect other schools?
Dorothy Neville said…
High Schools and yellow buses. What we were told several years ago...2007 when my son started at RHS... is that while there are only a few yellow buses for special ed students, those buses cannot be changed to a later start time. Too disruptive of the master transpo scheduling!

But we cannot have those students arriving earlier and leaving earlier than the rest of the students, because of many reasons. They would need supervision earlier, getting into contract issues. And they would have to leave school before the last period was over.

I am not trying to defend this, just sharing what we were told. I think the whole thing is ridiculous and parents, kids and school staff are being treated very badly.
Jet City mom said…
I don't see how they can make major changes to transportation AFTER open enrollment and not be concerned about throngs of peasants with flaming pitchforks at their door.

Didn't they see what just happened at the mayors house?

Jiminy Christmas, what is it about the air at the Stanford center that sucks all the common sense out of people's brains?
Anonymous said…
There is a bus from Magnolia to Ballard HS, but I think it's a dedicated Metro bus (I could be wrong, it could be a yellow bus). It's a community stop thing that makes 2 or so stops in Mag. before going to Ballard HS. (and I'm pretty sure it's all non-SPED students, not just APP b/c HS doesn't have APP, right?)

The community worked w/ SPS to resolve the issue because most days the many Metro buses that the kids were supposed to take were so full, they just passed the stop and kept driving. Multiple buses in a row too, so many and so often that kids were late to school. That's when SPS worked to resolve it.

It sounds from Marty Mclaren's comments, that this is/was probably an issue in West Seattle too.

(middle school mom)
Dorothy Neville said…
Very rough summary of transportation costs over time, with respect to the operating levy here
Jet City mom said…
I bet it would cost less just to buy a few more vans for sped students than to put this farce on their backs.
Anonymous said…
Above, 'Someone' quotes staff as saying any alternatives to the half-assed planse are impossible. I have reposted staff reasoning. Read carefully. Staff makes no sense (as per usual). They are ACTUALLY making an argument for why not to implement the plan in the first place... After early enrollment..adverse affect on schools...yadda yadda. The argument for not adopting the plan is right in front of their faces, as articulated by THEM.

DistrictWatcher


"3. The Board could direct staff to implement longer ride-times and other service reductions (such as restricting bus transportation to neighborhood schools for students outside of the walk zones) in order to generate further cost savings. However, this is not recommended for 2012 – 2013 as:
o Many families have selected schools (during open enrollment) based on information that transportation would be provided; and
o Changes in school selection at this time would adversely affect the schools because of resulting budget and staff reallocations
Anonymous said…
It's certainly apt the clouds have rolled in today and "the Scream" made headlines. Seriously SPS, if you are going to do something that's guaranteed to affect every child, parent (their employers), and teacher in your system, it's gonna be transportation and school start/end time. If you do a pisspoor job, you are gonna get pissed people. You shouldn't be surprised. Just like you, we are accountable to our employers and clients, and for our kids to show up at schools on time and ready to work. There isn't a lot of forgiveness out there when we mess up. We too have professional and civic responsibilites and our daily lives rely on some certainty.

It isn't just the board who seem to have lost their ability to govern and oversee the basics of running a school district , but hello, where is our CURRENT super, Dr. Enfield on this? Have people gotten so distracted by politics and career moves that they have forgotten their real duties? It isn't ok to go AWOL 1/2 way through your very well paid contract. Where is the oversight? The leadership? This whole transportation plan just reeks of NEGLECT.

As long as our top managers are drawing very well paid salaries and benefits, I expect them to be at this, fixing it before they leave. That is their duty.

-beyond frustrated
Anonymous said…
I know a lot of Eckstein students that ride Metro. Maybe there is a really big walk zone?

Also, what will happen to transportation costs if BEXIV passes and they will presumably be bussing kids to interim sites? Do they have the additional transportation costs factored into the levy package?

Also, regarding Cleveland. Did they not expect an increase in transportation costs when they created a STEM school at the far southern end of the district? Does Cleveland have an all-city draw? How many yellow buses are routed to Cleveland?

North End Mom
Anonymous said…
And P.S. look at this other POS reasoning from staff as posted by "Someone". Here's the attitude:

1) (Not even an apology...just ho hum fact:) We didn't tell the parents about this impact.

2) (But...so NOT sorry) The parents can't weigh in now, because we've already started working on next year's bus routes.

Really? Bull*((. It is a crisis because they didn't talk to us...and now they want to blame the crisis on WHY they won't work with us????!!!!

It is TOTAL Downtown BS.

DistictWatcher

4. The Board could choose to delay action on revision of Transportation Service Standards. This is not recommended as the Transportation Office is beginning to develop bus routes for the 2012 – 2013 school year. Delays will compromise the district’s ability to:
o Realize cost reductions; and
o Provide improved transportation services at the start of the school year.
Anonymous said…
district watcher... i was watching the board meeting last night and was kind of gobsmacked when he said that too. Nope we didn't tell families and nope, it's to late to weigh in....

so blase, certainly as if Trasn. didn't care ane even as if it never even occur to them to at least INFORM families that changes were coming.

i'm also gobsmacked that they think it's no big thing to have kids at bus stops at 6:15 in the am., half asleep. Isn't that a civil sunrise issue b/c it's dark then too for most of the year... (I made that term up by the way..)

(middle school mom)
Also, a parent (I think from TOPS) pointed out that Board policy (somewhere) states they can't change the schedules after Open Enrollment.

As we have learned from Charlie, the Board chooses to ignore violations of policy all the time but geez.
mirmac1 said…
Administration must answer this: were the recommendations of the (granted lame) 2008 MGJ/CGCS Transportation review ever carried out?

If SPS did not put in place truly effective transportation scheduling software/modules then the anticipated "$aving$" were chimerical. Are they just guessing that there will be savings (like they guessed WRONG last year.)

Before disrupting everyones' lives/work schedules/before and after school activities, Admin has to do a professional analysis. This latest crisis didn't come to light until they saw that, OOPS, they were spending more money than they thought.

Again, the report cites a failure to integrate systems. Could the budget bust been anticipated sooner? To avoid reflexive, destructive changes?
Anonymous said…
Susan Enfield.....you still have time left earning your salary here in Seattle. Where are you on transportation among other items?

All I know is that we now pay $2.50 each day that my daughter does take the bus to and from school. Let's see, $2.50 x 5 = $12.50 x 4= $50.00 x 10 months......new line item in the budget......$500 to set aside for bus rides to/from school. Just a 'little bit inside the line' to get a Metro pass.



Two and a quarter years to go
Janis said…
I'm the parent from TOPS who testified about this last night. Directly above the proposed amendments, the Transportation Service Standards states that bus arrival and departure times and school start times must be determined before the start of Open Enrollment.
Anonymous said…
Here's a link to civil twilight times for Seattle (am and pm for a year):

http://cleardarksky.com/cgi-bin/RiseSetTable.py?&mn=focuser&id=Seattle&type=2

It would be dark for a 6:10 bus pickup from about mid-September through the beginning of April.

by the numbers
Johnny Calcagno said…
The spreadsheet about transportation costs, mentioned above by Dorothy Neville, in PDF format.
Anonymous said…
FYI - The PTA slate has some links to sleep info, teens and start times under one of its resolutions.

parent
Anonymous said…
found it Janis. Not a board policy though, but w/in the Transportation Service Standards...

In the proposal last night titled REVISED TRANSPORTATION
SERVICE STANDARDS 2012-2013
Effective 9/1/2012

G. BUS ARRIVAL/DEPARTURE AND SCHOOL START/END TIME SCHEDULE:
Developing bus arrival/departure times and school start/end times must be coordinated, and approval of each must be completed prior to the start of the Open Enrollment process. Bus arrival/departure times are a part of the Transportation Service Standards approved annually by the School Board; school start/end times are approved by the Superintendent.

thanks Janis.

(middle school mom)
Johnny Calcagno said…
From last night's School Board Briefing/Proposed Action Report...

On December 15, 2011, the Operations
Committee was informed transportation expenditures were estimated to be $2.1M above budget.


Hmm, it looks like there was even more time for the community engagement that didn't happen...
Anonymous said…
So just to make sure I understand this correctly - the proposal to move Tier 1 middle and high schools to a 7:10 am is still being considered by the Board?? They didn't get rid of this option at their meeting last night? I don't know how anyone can seriously entertain a 7:10 start time.

Jane
Anonymous said…
You know, I get that reasonable people can have differing opinions on teacher evaluations, TFA, testing, etc. But this "tail wagging the dog" transportation proposal just defies all logic to me. How can any side/faction advocate for this with a straight face?

Are our priorities so screwed up as a district that $2M of (unsubstantiated) cost savings is allowed to drive this inane proposed schedule for 48 thousand students and their families? Has the increasingly unfriendly transportation schedule over the past few years made the district and the board think this proposal is actually acceptable? Does this (supposed) $2M force us to ignore all research on optimal learning times for children's bodies? Is this $2M a higher priority than academic achievement (not to mention working families' schedules)? Is there nothing else in the central budget that is less important or has less impact than transportation service (e.g.travel budgets, tons of teacher "coaches", 3 rounds of MAP, add'l executive directors, add'l deputy superintendents, etc.)?

Has all common sense been thrown out the window at the district, superintendent and board level? Right now, it appears the answer is yes.

Incredulous to the Point of Anger
Anonymous said…
The meeting is now online, with the transportation discussion starting at minute 96 of Part 2.

Transportation has not been able to meet 25 min ride times, so they are proposing increasing it to 60 min (what it used to be...) and thereby have "improved reliability of on-time service." So routes will be be reliably longer...

Aack - Peaslee is asking about moving third tier even later to keep the first tier from being to early and then putting high schools and middle schools in the second tier.

As Melissa stated, Patu asked when we get the info out to the community. The response was that it's just one year - but, you still need to let folks know, right??

I have an idea - let's drop MAP testing for one year and direct those savings to Transportation. It's a sacrifice we're willing to make.

3rd tier parent
Anonymous said…
Can somebody state which schools will be on which schedule. My kids are at McClure. Also, schedules for others.

.-Curious
Anonymous said…
Curious

No one knows yet. That is one of many, many problems with this proposal. Some of us have to make job scheduling decisions far in advance, so post open enrollment changes can have very deep impacts on our family lives. Not to mention the possibility that I may have one kid with a 7:10 start time and one with a 9:20, and an older teen at home alone for 4+ hours (like THAT is going to problem-free).

Sheer insanity.
Steve said…
I just called transportation (252-0900) to ask what Tier our schools are in for next year. The first person couldn't answer, so she passed me to her supervisor, who said

- Schools are not yet assigned to the tiers referenced in this plan. She couldn't tell me which tier are schools are in.

- She said before they can assign schools to tiers, the Superintendent has to set bell times for all the schools. She said that this is likely going to take place during the 3rd week in May. (And I think this is after the next board meeting, right?)

So, I'm completely confused now. They don't yet know when schools are going to start, but they're setting bus times for schools based on tiers, but they don't know what schools are in what tier?

Maybe this is the way it goes, but to me, it means parents are going to be completely in the dark about their start time for 2012-2013 until sometime in late May. Cart before horse, train left the station...pick your favorite saying.
Charlie Mas said…
The longer-term Board members, Carr and DeBell in particular, made it clear that the Transportation people delivered this horrorshow because the Board asked them to. Director DeBell guided the conversation away from exploring new ideas and towards choosing among the dreadful choices presented.
Rufus X said…
This "plan" is complete and utter bull$**t.

That is all.

Carry on.
Charlie Mas said…
I couldn't help noticing that not one single board member asked about past promises. None of them asked about the past promises of a Task Force, community engagement, reports, or studies. Not one of them asked why anyone should believe this year's promises of a Task Force, community engagement, reports or studies.

The Transportation folks made an odd admission that they, themselves, don't know anything about how their department works or where they are spending money.
Anonymous said…
I really hope Jose Banda cleans house and hires some competent people to help run the district, not only in Transportation but in numerous other departments. I can't imagine that starting fresh with people who actually know how to manage and report responsibly wouldn't make a world of difference in this district. What an inept horror show!

Ready for LOTS of New Blood This Summer
Anonymous said…
Okay, how's this. DON'T use the $$$M in the Community Schools fund to buy out Lorig, use it for DeBell's "international schools" boondoggle, and then use THAT program's money to not disrupt the lives of thousands of students and families.

There's an alternative for you.

Seriously disgusted
Johnny Calcagno said…
I keep hearing $2m savings, but here it says only $1m would be recouped (supposedly) by the proposed changes, and only 600k by moving busses to Tier 1.
SP said…
Steve, I called Transportation & got same response, but finally was passed onto Operations. I was told that all middle schools & high schools have always been in Tier I.
(Peggy McEvoy 252-0243 and Bob Westgard 252-0715 are listed on the Action Report as the Operation dept contacts for this proposal- call them!)

Thus, the proposed drop off time for all MS/HS's would be 7:10 am (starting time approx. 7:30), with dismissal time at 2:00pm.

Yesterday Operations also said that the Board has two other options (for drop off/depart times)that the Board could consider last night but these were not included in the Action Report. Does anyone have these 2 other proposals with specific drop off/depart times listed?

As Janis points out, it's TOO LATE to change the bus & bell schedule times for 2012-13, as specifically stated in the "Transportation Service Standards" and approved just 3 months ago on 2/10/12 by the full Board. Parents need to hold the Board to this!

Quoted once again (linked to the Action Report):

G. BUS ARRIVAL/DEPARTURE AND SCHOOL START/END TIME SCHEDULE:
Developing bus arrival/departure times and school start/end times must be coordinated, and approval of each must be completed prior to the start of the Open Enrollment process.
Jan said…
I think that, if you put it to a vote of parents, they would gladly choose to forgo MAP testing for a year, and end the NTN contract, and lay off 5 or 6 instructional coaches, to get to enough savings to allow for Alt 4: -- don't make these changes this year. Use MSP/HSPE/EOC and other teacher generated assessments for the purposes of the teacher contracts. Go back to whatever we had before MAP for determining Spectrum APP eligibility. And we are done --

EXCEPT for immediately setting up the Transportation Task Force -- with deadlines that get next year's changes disseminated and voted on BEFORE the end of open enrollment.
Dorothy Neville said…
"Yesterday Operations also said that the Board has two other options (for drop off/depart times)that the Board could consider last night but these were not included in the Action Report. Does anyone have these 2 other proposals with specific drop off/depart times listed?"

I listened last night and wondered about this as well. I haven't seen these options. If I was comprehending the presentation last night (and frankly, it was sometimes beyond comprehension) the reason option 1 is preferred by staff is that it is the only one that they have had time to analyze, so the only one in which they are sure that the savings will come. (yeah, right.)

I also was kinda pissed at the clarification Westgard pointed out that these are drop off times, not bell times. ie, don't get your panties in a twist at the 7:10 time, it's not a start time. Well, all the public testimony and board members seem to be smarter than he thinks they are because all were commenting based on expected bell time of 7:30.

Westgard pointed out that the superintendent sets the bell times, not him. But if Transportation sets the arrival and departure times... that de facto sets the bell times.

We live too far north to avoid civil twilight for everyone all year long. (And civil twilight is the correct term for morning and evening.) Trying to avoid civil twilight is NOT a legal issue! It is a district decision. We have elementary students on third tier to avoid their ever having to go to school in the dark. But now they are bumping into evening twilight for a week or two in the winter. And K8 kids will have even more morning twilight.

It's a mess. I think we need to throw out the issue of civil twilight unless we can avoid it for all. Young kids and sleepy teen drivers alike.
Anonymous said…
are these the options? what are termed "alternatives" in the school board briefing?

http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/school%20board/11-12%20agendas/050212agenda/20120502_Action_Report_TransportationServiceStdsRevision.pdf

IX. ALTERNATIVES
---The Board could choose to return to the 60 minute standard ride time used five years ago. This is not recommended as the District’s ability to limit transportation costs using three tiers would be limited (more buses would be required).

---- The Board could choose to not revise the Transportation Service Standards approved in February of this year. This is not recommended as it would require substantial cuts in other programs for the 2012 – 2013 school year.

---The Board could direct staff to implement longer ride-times and other service reductions (such as restricting bus transportation to neighborhood schools for students outside of the walk zones) in order to generate further cost savings. However, this is not recommended for 2012 – 2013 as:
-Many families have selected schools (during open enrollment) based on information that transportation would be provided; and
-Changes in school selection at this time would adversely affect the schools because of resulting budget and staff reallocations

---The Board could choose to delay action on revision of Transportation Service Standards. This is not recommended as the Transportation Office is beginning to develop bus routes for the 2012 – 2013 school year. Delays will compromise the district’s ability to:
-Realize cost reductions; and
-Provide improved transportation services at the start of the school year.
NESeattleMom said…
If all high schools are Tier 1, then Ingraham, which has zero hour classes for jazz and chamber music would have them start earlier next year, close to 6:30 instead of close to 7:00 am. My child goes there next year, so I don't know the exact current times.
Janis said…
The other two options are listed on a single sheet of paper that staff brought to the Board after hearing the public testimony last night. There were copies on the table in the back of the room, but no one told anyone. I asked Bob Westgard what the other two options were that they were talking about after the meeting and he gave me a copy.

The alternatives set different bus arrival/departure times. Will try to set them out here, but I know the formatting won't be great.

Alternative 1

First Tier HS/MS/K8 7:25 2:20
First Tier Elementary 7:45 2:25
Second Tier HS/MS/K8 8:20 3:15
Second Tier Elementary 8:40 3:15
Third Tier HS/MS/K8 9:15 4:10
Third Tier Elementary 9:35 4:10
AM Head Start 8:05 11:45
PM Head Start 12:55 4:30

Alternative 2

First Tier HS/MS/K8 7:30 2:15
First Tier Elementary 8:05 3:00
Second Tier HS/MS/K8 8:25 3:00
Second Tier Elementary 9:00 3:55
Third Tier HS/MS/K8 9:20 3:55
AM Head Start 8:05 11:45
PM Head Start 12:55 4:30

Oddly, Alternative 3 doesn't have a Third Tier Elementary, but no one seemed to notice that last night.
Dorothy Neville said…
Here's a hard copy of the three alternatives that the staff presented (even though they only suggested the first one).
Transportation Alternatives
Anonymous said…
How about this for an alternative? EVERY school starts somewhere between 8am and 8:30am, like any reasonable school district (or EVERY private school in Seattle).

Now, find the extra bus money by cutting the "not-directly-helping-the-classrooms" fat at the central district and have the vast majority of middle school and high school students ride Metro. The mayor supports academic achievement and education is a priority for Seattle, so he should help make Metro more responsive, right? Lord knows we could cut a bunch of the Transportation department as this plan is much simpler to implement and manage (oh, and it's much more customer-friendly.)

Get Back to Basics
Thank you to Dorothy and Janis; I've been trying to get those and you found them.
Lori said…
Look at Alternative 1 with the Third Tier bus arrival time of 9:35AM! That means school would start at what, 9:45AM? 9:50AM?

I wonder if they are going to a 3-tier food services operation as well. At this rate, they'll need to offer lunch and *dinner* at the third-tier elementaries, not breakfast and lunch! Really, a 4:10PM bus departure time? Stunning.
Anonymous said…
So what is the reason for not using the Alternative 1 or Alternative 2? I could live with those times, as I imagine a lot of parents, school staff and teachers could.

Since staff seems to have no idea how much money anything costs, or how to build a budget, much less implement and manage one, why not just take a chance on one of the alternatives that they threw on a piece of paper?

Or does it have to be presented on some half as%ed power point for them to think it will work, and for Sherry "I'm at Boeing" Carr to think it will work.

"Hopeless"
Anonymous said…
Thanks for posting these alternatives. If there is momentum for a switch to MS and HS starting later and elementary starting earlier then something like the Alternative 2 above with no third tier elementary almost makes sense. It still seems that 2 tiers makes more sense than 3 though.

I don't understand why they aren't talking about these alternatives. It they are out there they should be discussed. There seems to be a confusion campaign. Without this blog I would have no idea what to write the board about. It's hard enough with all of this help.

Tier Challenged
Jan said…
Janis commented: "Oddly, Alternative 3 doesn't have a Third Tier Elementary, but no one seemed to notice that last night."

Or maybe, because they all seem to run 20 minutes after the HS/MS time, it would mean that arrival time was 9:40, so that school would start at about 10 -- and that was too outrageous for even them to acknowledge.
Anonymous said…
The elementary times on Alt. 2 seem odd - why is there so much time between drop-off and pick-up?

If drop-off is 8:05, start time would be 8:20, then end time would be 2:20 to 2:30, with pick up at 2:30 to 2:40, right? Are they proposing lengthening the school day, too?

confused
Anonymous said…
That 3rd tier schedule, it won't work unless there is one adult in the home and out of the workforce. That will further impoverish many families and prevent others from taking work that wil l help their families. Where are these planners coming from? What planet? Do they all have maid s or wifeys who pick up the pieces???

Fed up
Anonymous said…
These folks that did all the bus time planning have clearly been trained using Everyday Math ;-)

--FedMomof2
Po3 said…
"Alternative 1 with the Third Tier bus arrival time of 9:35AM!"

9:45 to 3:35 is a a perfect schedule for high school and maybe even middle school.

Sports could practice 7:30 - 9:15am.
Anonymous said…
Let's make this easy for the board+staff. Assuming just school and no extracurriculars:

No kids, period, on yellow buses before 7 a.m.

No kids, period, arriving home on yellow buses after 4:30 p.m.

There. Go rebuild your (@*&# Tier System. Or don't. Go build your new start times. Or don't. Go negotiate your labor contracts. Or don't. It's "or DON'T" because at this rate the whole damn district is going to elect to homeschool.

Just DON'T you dare throw this load of crap on our students "for just one year." Go lock yourselves in a big room. Get busy.

SPITTING MAD
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dj said…
Hopeless, being on the third tier elementary scheule for alternative 1 would be pretty brutal. My oldest is already at an elementary school that runs 9:30-3:40, and let me tell you, I thank my lucky stars that my husband and I have the kind of jobs where every day one of us can put off driving to work until 9:15. I have no idea what two-parent working families do with young elementary kids if they don't have the flexibility I have. It would make much more sense to me to put older kids on later schedules, both for sleep purposes and safety purposes -- a 14-year-old can make it to school without a parent.
Eric B said…
Here's a stupid question: How many K-5, K-8, MS, and HS students ride the bus or are eligible for transportation? I can't seem to find this basic info anywhere on the website or the transportation standards. Can anyone help?
My husband asked a good question. He said that busing is basic that many districts have as a service and yet we in Seattle have to reinvent ours every couple of years. What do other districts know/do that we don't?
Anonymous said…
I suspect the quality of their transportation planners is a notch or two higher, Melissa.

- thinks this is all insane
mirmac1 said…
IF they had the right scheduling software, like their 2008 audit, they a) could've figured out there was no $4M savings; and b) quickly simulate different scenarios for next year that WON'T cause havoc and endanger kids.

So what HAVE they been doing all year? Is that why Tom Bishop is looking for a job?
Jan said…
Melissa -- I think the "reinventing" mostly started with the school closures, the budget shortfall, and the NSAP -- which upended transportation stuff that I recall having been stable (pretty much, except for some tinkering with yellow vs. metro, etc.) for years.

Frankly we have not had stability (either financial, or program/building capacity) since that time. So, as much as I acknowledge people saying things like -- "this will be the fourth year in a row, etc. etc. -- which is true -- I think it is a product of these specific issues, and not of the District generally. The budget is largely something foisted on us (though badly handled once it arrived, by bad budgeting, bad calendar control, etc.) The OTHER issue -- the school closures, NSAP, etc, and THEIR effect -- well that one is ALL ours. This didn't need to be done so badly, and wouldn't have been, if the entire planning process around the NSAP had been handled better, so there is less moving of kids here and there, with or without transportation, each year.

Finally -- back in the days where the deal was -- everybody got transportation to any school they got into, the whole thing was less fraught for parents. Maybe you didn't like the bus times -- but you were never threatened with being "stranded" without any transportation at all (at least, that is how I recall it-- maybe I am wrong).
Anonymous said…
Let's not forget why so many of us are being asked to sacrifice our children!

That's $1,000,000.00 extra for some suffering sole in the upper 1% - maybe some of that will trickle down - Ha! Ha! Ha!

How much longer will we take this!!!

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