New Survey Shows Washington State Supports Charter (Just Ask the Questions the Right Way)
I saw that the Washington Policy Center (which is basically a right-wing thinktank) did a poll and they say that 60% of the people surveyed say they support allowing charters and 64% say they support allowing "low-income and minority children in urban neighborhoods" to attend them. They surveyed 400 adults statewide. It doesn't say when the poll was taken.
The idea of changing state law to allow charter public schools found support in all areas of the state – 55% of respondents in Eastern Washington and 61% in Western Washington supported allowing charters, including 58% in King County and a slim majority (51%) in Seattle.
The highest level of opposition was reported in Seattle, where 32% said they strongly or somewhat oppose allowing charter public schools. Opposition in King County as a whole was 25%.
Now they start their press release saying:
Charter public schools are currently banned in Washington.
No, they're not. They are not legally permitted and there's a big difference. There is NO law "banning" charters. There has been legislation about charters that was voted down or rescinded by public vote but no ban. But it's a good word to use if you want to up the ante.
So there were basically two questions. Here's the first one:
1. 41 states & the District of Columbia have charter public schools, independent community- based schools that are tuition-free and take all students...Currently, state law bans such schools in Washington. After hearing this, would you support or oppose changing state law so charter public schools could be opened in Washington State?
I really dislike that "community-based" label because it is not true. Charters do not have to take more community children nor do they have to be based on anything the community wants. They are arguing in other parts of the country over this issue because some communities want a bump for their children to be able to enroll in the school that they can walk to but the charters don't want to change their enrollment procedures to allow that.
Again with the word "ban". Also, they are required to take all students; they do NOT do so much of the time.
Second question:
2. Would you support or oppose allowing charter public schools to open in urban neighborhoods where state officials report traditional schools are failing to adequately educate low-income and minority children?
Well, you can't load up a question better than that. "Do you want poor children to get out of failing schools? Why yes I do.
The other questions were about age, gender and party ID. I wish they had asked about race since they actually put that issue in as part of the question.
What is interesting to me is that in the interview with McKenna on KUOW yesterday, he emphatically said that if the charter legislation got to the floor of both parts of the Legislature, it would have passed. I have no idea how he thinks he knows this; he could be right. What Rep. Sharon Tomiko Santos has said is that it would NOT have been voted out of her committee and I think she would know that.
What I think the charter supporters want is for the legislation to become law. Okay but then it WILL go to a vote of the people where it will, yet again, fail. I know this just as surely as McKenna believes it would pass in the Legislature.
Now Senator Tom said it shouldn't get voted on again because that's "gambling" with education. Just like we "gamble" with voting for President.
The crux of this whole issue is education. Not public education but educating the public.
We have never had charter schools in this state. It is clear to me from months of talking to people and doing these forums and going to LD meetings that people really do not know what charters are. I'm pretty sure with the very little (and skewed) description from the WPC's poll, that most of these respondents didn't really know what charters are except "public community-based schools."
Let it go to a vote - I have no problem with that at all.
(Update: I do want to add that there are a several reasons that the pro-charter side would NOT want this to go to a vote.
One, it has already gone to a vote THREE times and I think there are voters who would be mighty irritated it is coming forth again.
Two, we have a HUGE ballot in November. Good luck getting heard in that crowded field.
Three, they could lose and that might be the final nail in the board.
Four, they wouldn't be able to stick everything in a referendum that they can in this bill. Gone would be Transformation Zone schools and the parent trigger.
It's quite the conundrum.)
Second update: realized that if it did go to a vote it would be a referendum, not an initiative. I'm pretty sure with a referendum, it is a vote on the whole law. In an initiative, charter supporters wouldn't be able to have multiple issues in the initiative (as there is in this law). My error.
The idea of changing state law to allow charter public schools found support in all areas of the state – 55% of respondents in Eastern Washington and 61% in Western Washington supported allowing charters, including 58% in King County and a slim majority (51%) in Seattle.
The highest level of opposition was reported in Seattle, where 32% said they strongly or somewhat oppose allowing charter public schools. Opposition in King County as a whole was 25%.
Now they start their press release saying:
Charter public schools are currently banned in Washington.
No, they're not. They are not legally permitted and there's a big difference. There is NO law "banning" charters. There has been legislation about charters that was voted down or rescinded by public vote but no ban. But it's a good word to use if you want to up the ante.
So there were basically two questions. Here's the first one:
1. 41 states & the District of Columbia have charter public schools, independent community- based schools that are tuition-free and take all students...Currently, state law bans such schools in Washington. After hearing this, would you support or oppose changing state law so charter public schools could be opened in Washington State?
I really dislike that "community-based" label because it is not true. Charters do not have to take more community children nor do they have to be based on anything the community wants. They are arguing in other parts of the country over this issue because some communities want a bump for their children to be able to enroll in the school that they can walk to but the charters don't want to change their enrollment procedures to allow that.
Again with the word "ban". Also, they are required to take all students; they do NOT do so much of the time.
Second question:
2. Would you support or oppose allowing charter public schools to open in urban neighborhoods where state officials report traditional schools are failing to adequately educate low-income and minority children?
Well, you can't load up a question better than that. "Do you want poor children to get out of failing schools? Why yes I do.
The other questions were about age, gender and party ID. I wish they had asked about race since they actually put that issue in as part of the question.
What is interesting to me is that in the interview with McKenna on KUOW yesterday, he emphatically said that if the charter legislation got to the floor of both parts of the Legislature, it would have passed. I have no idea how he thinks he knows this; he could be right. What Rep. Sharon Tomiko Santos has said is that it would NOT have been voted out of her committee and I think she would know that.
What I think the charter supporters want is for the legislation to become law. Okay but then it WILL go to a vote of the people where it will, yet again, fail. I know this just as surely as McKenna believes it would pass in the Legislature.
Now Senator Tom said it shouldn't get voted on again because that's "gambling" with education. Just like we "gamble" with voting for President.
The crux of this whole issue is education. Not public education but educating the public.
We have never had charter schools in this state. It is clear to me from months of talking to people and doing these forums and going to LD meetings that people really do not know what charters are. I'm pretty sure with the very little (and skewed) description from the WPC's poll, that most of these respondents didn't really know what charters are except "public community-based schools."
Let it go to a vote - I have no problem with that at all.
(Update: I do want to add that there are a several reasons that the pro-charter side would NOT want this to go to a vote.
One, it has already gone to a vote THREE times and I think there are voters who would be mighty irritated it is coming forth again.
Two, we have a HUGE ballot in November. Good luck getting heard in that crowded field.
Three, they could lose and that might be the final nail in the board.
Four, they wouldn't be able to stick everything in a referendum that they can in this bill. Gone would be Transformation Zone schools and the parent trigger.
It's quite the conundrum.)
Second update: realized that if it did go to a vote it would be a referendum, not an initiative. I'm pretty sure with a referendum, it is a vote on the whole law. In an initiative, charter supporters wouldn't be able to have multiple issues in the initiative (as there is in this law). My error.
Comments
CPS Turnarounds, School Closings Approved Amid Public Criticism (VIDEO)
The CBA unanimously approved Wednesday night to close, phase out, or turnaround 17 academically struggling Chicago public schools.
A school slated for turnaround will see its entire staff – teachers, librarians, and principal – completely replaced.
We are in a world of hurt.
n...
I can't trust polls on the left or the right. I can't trust anything anymore. It not only worries me; it wearies me.
n...
The problem for me is knowing that and yet wondering why I don't see more of that in the message that comes from them. I KNOW several people at LEV to be bright women and yet I do not understand their convoluted message.
I honestly believe many people know they are being intellectually dishonest but believe that the end game is the most important thing (get charters into Washington) and the rest will get cleaned up as they go along.
If you want a great decision take 4 or 5 folks that are true experts, have them make the decision.
Adding several thousand people to the decision making process will likely screw it up.
He was on the California Math Text adoption committee in 1964 .... He knew things were screwy when publishers offered him assistance in understanding the math texts.... He figured if a Nobel Prize winner could not make sense of any math text... the kids were shafted.
Does WA Policy Center really think argument by poll results is a valuable method to make great decisions about complex issues?
.... Little wonder Ed in WA State is screwed up. In too many places there is NO LEADERSHIP of value.
It is so good to read your postings again. You stated several days ago that you are backing off from the fight against the corporate takevover of schools and the targeting of teachers...understandable after five years in the trenches of this Sisyphus mess.
I want you to be aware of how much information and support you provide to teachers like me. Your insights and knowledge are invaluable. In addition to intricate data and your acute b.s. radar, your information sources are first rank. I am now a devoted reader of Hattie, and have bookmarked many links (like the recent WWC). I subsequently share the resources with colleagues.
You are a hero, in my book.
By the way, don't let disappointment in DeBell get you down...his karma is likely in overdrive.
--enough already
Thanks for your phone call this morning requesting a copy of the press release. Glad you received it.
You closed the first paragraph of this blog post with "It [the press release] doesn't say when the poll was taken." Not to question your thoroughness, but the penultimate sentence in the release reads: "The poll was conducted February 19th and 20th and included 400 adults statewide."
http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/press/press-releases/new-poll-60-support-allowing-charter-public-schools-washington
Regards,
John Barnes
Washington Policy Center
"Regards"
Linguists study the patterns of language and the users of those patterns...and, voila!--affinities and groups become soooo evident.
--enough already
Luckilu, we have this blog, and others, such as Parents Across America and Seattle Education 2010, to provide a balanced perspective. And I've noted that many, many people seem to be becoming aware of the propaganda machine that is Big Ed Reform.
Yay! The truth will out.
Number will transfer straight to voice mail for future.
I wonder about being a part of the select few to receive the call. Or, maybe it is just that a select few received the initial call.
Only four groups I can think of that shared our number for survey contact...
1. SPS (last year - this year we only gave cell phone to avoid those 6 am calls.)
2. King County Elections
3. SCPTSA (as have served as an officer.)
4. Alliance for Education (as have donated to our school with A4E as the intermediary.)
- Straight to Voicemail
The most recent school board election is evidence.
- Straight to Voicemail
It is precisely all of my interactions with SPS that has even made me consider charters and (shudder) vouchers as something to support. Up until I had a school-aged child, I was vehemently anti-charter.
-reapwhatyousow
n...
It runs deep. The power of competition to spur providers to give consumers more for less is one of this nation's greatest myths. It is one of our sacred beliefs.
Charter schools don't just offer a facile answer for a consumer culture. As you learn more about public education you will quickly discover that the primary obstacle to changing schools so they work better for children, and the primary frustration for teachers are counter-productive rules set by district-level administrators. These are the highest paid people in public education, they never teach any children, and we only hear about them when they so something stupid, like sell a school for millions less than its value, run scams, or claim that clocks are racist. Then here come charter schools which are distinctive in that they have escaped the authority of these managers and bureaucrats. Sounds like the way to go, doesn't it?
So charter schools are more than just the easy answer for disappointed consumers. They are also the easy answer for folks who know what's wrong with public education. So why aren't they the right answer?
They aren't the right answer because the consumer dissatisfaction is largely misplaced. Not only won't you become thin if you eat Special K instead of Corn Flakes, but you aren't fat now - people aren't supposed to be as thin as runway models.
They aren't the right answer because competition doesn't produce the widest choices. On the contrary, it tends to reduce the range of choice as all of the competitors focus on the same part of the market. Maybe you shouldn't be looking at the Ford or the Chevy, but at the Zenn.
Finally, even if illogical, counter-productive district-level administrative rules are the primary impediment to significant improvement in our schools, the solution is not to build a new bureaucracy modeled on the current one, but to implement new rules.
The truth is that our schools are good - better than people want you to believe. And charter schools are no better.
The truth is that the vast majority of charter schools are not innovative. They are only incrementally different from our public schools - if they are different at all.
The truth is that charter schools rarely take advantage of their freedom to make revolutionary change; they operate largely as if they were bound by the district rules.
The real solution to our school troubles lie in setting rational expectations, re-designing our education system around a post-industrial model for the 21st century, and address the real root of academic failure, the opportunity gap. Charters won't do any of those things - at least they are no more likely to do them than our public schools.
"Three times the public has passed a law saying that it takes 2/3rds vote in the legislature to raise taxes. Bet you aren't in favor of listening to the public on this one.
Santos said the bill wouldn't make it out of her committee, not because it didn't have majority votes to pass it, but because she did not want it. She killed it without allowing a vote."
Santos said on KUOW that the bill would NOT have passed out of her committee (and said nothing about "she didn't want it"). Where is the source of your information?
Anon.
Same thing happened in McAuliffe's committee.
I'm not sure why we elect legislators. The leadership runs everything. Nothing happens that they don't approve of. We could save lots of money if we stopped the charade.
Or we encourage our legislators to get a backbone and do the job we sent them to Olympia to do. That does not include being the puppets of the leadership.
Anon.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2017417952_edit05education.html
Anon.