Coffee with the Superintendent - Part 2
Questions and Answers - NSAP
Q: Jane Addams only has a 3-year commitment as a K-8. There is concern that we won't be able to attract parents in January if they don't believe the program will continue.
A: Dr. Goodloe-Johnson initially seemed confused (even though it was a pretty clear question, maybe she forgot where she was or the circumstances in the new JA creation). Anyway she said there were 3 factors to consider. One, the comprehensive school report. Two, enrollment at JA. Three, we are going into year 2 of the NSAP. Geographic zones are going to be drawn for option schools. There may be a boundary issues for Garfield. Between November and January we should know.
(So the enrollment number analysis plus the geographic zones created should give us the answers to what tweaks may occur for the NSAP. This would be a good time to stay tuned in and not zone out during the holidays.)
Q: Will boundaries for neighborhoods be redrawn?
A: That's always a question mark. "The School Board could redraw the boundaries." It's an option.
I have to point out here that the Board does NOT draw the boundaries. I noticed she did this a couple of times at this meeting, trying to put the Board in the conversation. That's fine but the Board gives direction and policy to the Superintendent who then develops the plan to carry out those things. The Board then approves/tweaks/says start over/abandons the plan and the staff carry out what they voted on. The Board doesn't create any plan or draw any boundaries.
Q: The NE schools are packed - Bryant, Wedgwood, Laurelhurst, Thorton Creek - all over capacity. You added Sand Point to relieve this but the boundaries for it are small. In addition, you put the special programs there and there is going to be more transitional housing nearby. Is it time to talk about Jane Addams becoming an attendance area middle school (or regular K-8) to take the pressure off Eckstein that will come from all these overpacked schools?
A: That could be part of the conversation.
One parent pointed out that between John Rodgers and Sacajawea there are 50 empty seats (but that really doesn't help in the NE but in the North). I'm pretty sure Olympic Hills and Northgate have some as well.
Q: MAP. 10 weeks of the year we lose use of our library plus the librarian time.
A: It's not a district-wide issue but a school by school issue. (Let me pause here to say that if you read this blog and go out into the community, this seems to be a big issue everywhere.)
Then she said this: How can we free up time at school sites? We could see how children do and maybe just do it 2 times a year at some sites or maybe just have specific groups of children take it all 3 times. (This is absolutely what I heard. If someone heard differently, please say so. I was so surprised. What!?!)
Q: I asked if we had a teacher shortage in Seattle?
A: No, not that I'm aware.
Q: So why would we consider bringing Teach for America to SPS if there's no shortage and there is a cost to us (beyond salaries)?
A: We wouldn't have to pay that cost. Another entity/group? would pay for it.
Q: But long-term who would pay/
A: Melissa, I don't know about the future but we have something now. I would be one more way to have a wider access of teachers.
Q: So you would seriously have a just-out-of-college grad with 5 weeks training and no experience teach a middle school special-ed class?
A: I don't understand your question. (I thought it was pretty clear myself.) I think that the training TFA teachers get is better than some our teachers get. (Again, yes, this is what I wrote down that she said.) These teachers are just the same as all the other teachers. (And that's why you have to write an MOU with TFA and the SEA. This from Michael DeBell; they are bringing in 25 teachers which seems like a lot for a program like this.)
Another parent commented that TFA had a good longitudinal study about its work and I pointed out there had been many studies of TFA, with many differing answers about it.
Q: How to make Sand Point more of a draw?
A: She said that the first year was a time for the SP parent community to talk about what they want for the school. (One, both McDonald and SP communities DID talk about what they wanted before the schools started. If the district had put anything in place, I know both schools would have better numbers. Two, I just don't believe that what the parents want for their school is what they are going to see. I can't think of the last time a program got placed somewhere because a community asked for it.)
One parent pointed out that she could see the benefit of something like Teach for America. She said she was a pre-school teacher but that it was very expensive to get her teaching certificate and that hands-on teaching is valid as well as having a certificate. "It brings a richness to our school." Again, we need another thread on TFA but I will say that no TFA teacher comes into a school with hands-on experience. TFA gives them on-the-job training when they are placed into a classroom. It would not be my first pick (and if I had my special ed child in a class like that, we would have gone private).
Q: Jane Addams only has a 3-year commitment as a K-8. There is concern that we won't be able to attract parents in January if they don't believe the program will continue.
A: Dr. Goodloe-Johnson initially seemed confused (even though it was a pretty clear question, maybe she forgot where she was or the circumstances in the new JA creation). Anyway she said there were 3 factors to consider. One, the comprehensive school report. Two, enrollment at JA. Three, we are going into year 2 of the NSAP. Geographic zones are going to be drawn for option schools. There may be a boundary issues for Garfield. Between November and January we should know.
(So the enrollment number analysis plus the geographic zones created should give us the answers to what tweaks may occur for the NSAP. This would be a good time to stay tuned in and not zone out during the holidays.)
Q: Will boundaries for neighborhoods be redrawn?
A: That's always a question mark. "The School Board could redraw the boundaries." It's an option.
I have to point out here that the Board does NOT draw the boundaries. I noticed she did this a couple of times at this meeting, trying to put the Board in the conversation. That's fine but the Board gives direction and policy to the Superintendent who then develops the plan to carry out those things. The Board then approves/tweaks/says start over/abandons the plan and the staff carry out what they voted on. The Board doesn't create any plan or draw any boundaries.
Q: The NE schools are packed - Bryant, Wedgwood, Laurelhurst, Thorton Creek - all over capacity. You added Sand Point to relieve this but the boundaries for it are small. In addition, you put the special programs there and there is going to be more transitional housing nearby. Is it time to talk about Jane Addams becoming an attendance area middle school (or regular K-8) to take the pressure off Eckstein that will come from all these overpacked schools?
A: That could be part of the conversation.
One parent pointed out that between John Rodgers and Sacajawea there are 50 empty seats (but that really doesn't help in the NE but in the North). I'm pretty sure Olympic Hills and Northgate have some as well.
Q: MAP. 10 weeks of the year we lose use of our library plus the librarian time.
A: It's not a district-wide issue but a school by school issue. (Let me pause here to say that if you read this blog and go out into the community, this seems to be a big issue everywhere.)
Then she said this: How can we free up time at school sites? We could see how children do and maybe just do it 2 times a year at some sites or maybe just have specific groups of children take it all 3 times. (This is absolutely what I heard. If someone heard differently, please say so. I was so surprised. What!?!)
Q: I asked if we had a teacher shortage in Seattle?
A: No, not that I'm aware.
Q: So why would we consider bringing Teach for America to SPS if there's no shortage and there is a cost to us (beyond salaries)?
A: We wouldn't have to pay that cost. Another entity/group? would pay for it.
Q: But long-term who would pay/
A: Melissa, I don't know about the future but we have something now. I would be one more way to have a wider access of teachers.
Q: So you would seriously have a just-out-of-college grad with 5 weeks training and no experience teach a middle school special-ed class?
A: I don't understand your question. (I thought it was pretty clear myself.) I think that the training TFA teachers get is better than some our teachers get. (Again, yes, this is what I wrote down that she said.) These teachers are just the same as all the other teachers. (And that's why you have to write an MOU with TFA and the SEA. This from Michael DeBell; they are bringing in 25 teachers which seems like a lot for a program like this.)
Another parent commented that TFA had a good longitudinal study about its work and I pointed out there had been many studies of TFA, with many differing answers about it.
Q: How to make Sand Point more of a draw?
A: She said that the first year was a time for the SP parent community to talk about what they want for the school. (One, both McDonald and SP communities DID talk about what they wanted before the schools started. If the district had put anything in place, I know both schools would have better numbers. Two, I just don't believe that what the parents want for their school is what they are going to see. I can't think of the last time a program got placed somewhere because a community asked for it.)
One parent pointed out that she could see the benefit of something like Teach for America. She said she was a pre-school teacher but that it was very expensive to get her teaching certificate and that hands-on teaching is valid as well as having a certificate. "It brings a richness to our school." Again, we need another thread on TFA but I will say that no TFA teacher comes into a school with hands-on experience. TFA gives them on-the-job training when they are placed into a classroom. It would not be my first pick (and if I had my special ed child in a class like that, we would have gone private).
Comments
Because I know her I would trust her with my kids. On the flip -- I also understand she is not the norm for TFA. She has a graduate degree and was a successful lawyer - but did not find it to be her life calling.
She does have a connection with kids and has education and life experience to back her up.
I rather wish TFA applicants would be used as aides in our, "class size doesn't matter" classrooms vs. taking the unaided helm all by themselves.
Make it a requirement to have your teaching credentials before you can lead a classroom on your own. In the interim, accept help from those willing to give teaching a test. Folks that are uncertain can certainly make a determination as an aide vs. the person in control.
But, just plain displacing teachers to save monies vs. filling in for unfillable vacancies is not good.
Jesse Hagopian was a TFA alum (and not a fan) who went on to masters degree in Ed. He said he did have some time in classroom as part of the boot camp. No idea how much or if it's standard.
I'm also confused, do TFA completers get some sort of special cert after their two years? Is there a functional distinction between TFA newbie, TFA alum, and regularly certified teacher. If you're a newbie, you have to go to an "underserved" school, right? But after the two years you can teach anywhere, right? Or just anywhere that accepts TFA? I'll be looking forward to whatever you dig up, Melissa.
I think the program is only for the young and the restless but again, still doing the research.
We didn't get the money but we are left permanently with the changes made to pursue it, including a law on the books that allows for an alternative teacher certification process.
Northgate is over capacity by 21.
NE parent
So my D is in a full time teaching position ( team teaching with a mentor) for two years. At the same time she is taking university courses, some of which are held off site ( from her workplace), but some are held on site. She will be working combined school/university more than 40 hours a week for two years-
How can a 5 week program POSSIBLY be better than full time X at least 80 weeks?
Do we want medical staff who trained in a month long program? Howabout engineers?
Guess we can get rid of all those admin staffers at the Stanford center who insist on being called "Dr.", since we know now that those with less education are more skilled
( well that could be true)...
I doubt if TFA gets people any sort of certification, because in our state there is a protocol to obtaining certification- that was the sticking point with all the science and math types who were working as district/school consultants and had post -doc work in their field but couldn't be allowed in the classroom.
Teachers in public schools in Washington State are required to hold a valid teaching certificate. The basic requirements for teacher certification are:
Degree. A minimum of a bachelor's degree from a regionally accredited college/university
Preparation Program. Completion of a state-approved teacher preparation program at a regionally accredited college/university OR completion of an alternative pathway to certification, hold certification in another state and taught 3 years at the P-12 level.
Teacher Testing. Teachers must pass a basic skills test and (for each endorsement) an endorsement test. See Teacher Assessments.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com
/dcschools/2010/08
/michelle_rhee_first-year_teach.html
Apparently, Michelle Rhee, who was a TFA teacher, told and "amusing" anecdote about how her classroom management skills were so bad that she put tape on all her kids mouths to keep them quiet. Seriously.
There's even a link to the actual audio for this.
http://www.washingtonpost.com
/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/08
/13/VI2010081305444.html
We don't need TFA. It'll only put similarly incompetent teachers in the classroom.
I don't want my kid to have a TFA teacher. I suspect, however, they wouldn't put such a teacher in my kid's class. The parents might kick up a fuss.
No, I expect they'll put TFA teachers in the neediest class rooms, exactly the last place they should be.
So there must be a draft MOU somewhere. You can Google TFA at the district's website and find one thing. This has really been under the radar.
Thanks for that update NE parent. A parent at the coffee said there were seats at Sacajawea.
I'd be all for SPS getting class sizes down in some of our neediest schools by bringing in TFA as a subsidized aid to our schools. Might even keep me from being lured to move or go private.
-parent of a toddler in South Seattle
again. tfa does NOT equal class size reduction.
nor is tfa in seattle a done deal yet.
They require the same elements as a contract, including "consideration" - money.
So the New School Foundation's MOU with the District deliniates the parties' rights and responsibilities regarding the NSF's generous grant.
If another school community wanted an MOU they would need to have a non-profit, such as the PTSA, make the deal with the District (not the school), and it would have to include some benefit that the non-profit were providing the District, such as cash or volunteer hours.
Any group is free to try to get one, but I'm not sure with whom you'd have to negotiate. I presume it would be the Grants Manager. Isn't that Duggan Harman?
Please folks, you can like TFA for any number of reasons but no, it will NOT bring class size down and no, they will not be aides to regular teachers. They are not hiring TFA teachers in ADDITION to teachers but as teachers.
How 'bout getting classes down for some of our neediest students and their teachers, instead? Schools aren't needy: People are. Why should only some buildings get attention? Shouldn't a struggling student at ANY school get attention?
And if TFA is good enough for some supposed "neediest school," they're good enough for ALL schools, right? Why would be only put TFA in a "needy school"? If they're such wonderful deals (cheap!) why wouldn't we just go ahead and replace ALL teachers with TFA? If they're some sort of emergency band-aide for "needy schools," does that mean they're not the real deal? They're a stop-gap? Why aren't "needy schools" getting the very best teachers? Are they not worthy?
I also agree with Melissa - TFA would not be added FTE to reduce class size, it would be replacing certified teacher FTE.
None of us have anything against the indviduals who join TFA. I'm sure most are at least well-intentioned.
But let's call it what is is: scab labor. The deformist admin types are out to get rid of veteran professional teachers and replace them with naive newbies who do not see themselves as union-busters, but as altruistic angels.
Meanwhile,TFA corp. rakes in the dough.
She also worked with TAF students in south Seattle ( this was in 2000)
Seattle schools used Americorps to help staff Read Right , and to offer other after school supports like College Access Now.
Those programs I support- but it does sound like TFA will take us someplace we don't want to go.
"For the 2011 year, districts invest at least $4,000 per corps member per year towards the cost of recruitment, selection, training, placement, and ongoing support. These provisions are agreed upon through a Professional Services Agreement between districts and Teach For America, which are signed before a new site opens."
Is this the fee that the Superintendent indicated a private foundation is fronting? Also, who pays for their tuition, books, and other fees associated with getting their Wa State Teaching Certificate?