Open Thread Friday
As previously announced, there are no Director community meetings tomorrow.
What's on your mind?
What's on your mind?
Tuesday Open Thread
The speaker list is up for the Board meeting tomorrow; not as packed as I thought with just four people on the waitlist. The majority of the speakers are speaking on high school boundaries (with several wanting to talk about Ballard High). There are only three of us speaking about the Green Dot resolution asking the City to not grant the zoning departures that Green Dot has requested. It's me, long-time watchdog, Chris Jackins, and the head of the Washington State Charter Schools Association, Patrick D'Amelio. (I knew Mr. D'Amelio when he headed the Alliance for Education and Big Brothers and Big Sisters; he's a stand-up guy.)
Comments
Shouldn't they throw out the achievement component in AL determination -alltogether really-but particularly for this year since it's bouncing all over the place w/ recalibration.?
Don't other districts use CoGAT excusivley for AL determination? I thought that was how it was when my other kids went through.
-confused parent
Corporate Education Reformers Plot Next Steps at Secretive Meeting
Wonder if Rodney Tom is there?
SP argued that it was the legal responsibility of the board to retain this capability. KSM argued that it was just like giving a possibly wrongfully terminated employee the right of appeal. BP pointed out that in fact it has been a historical problem with regarding waivers to the recent math adoptions. MMc even suggested that perhaps the board should be more aggressive and have the right to review even waiver requests that were granted, which is, curiously, an argument MD made, arguing the amendment was otherwise logically inconsistent.
But I think in MD's case he was attempting a weak reductio ad absurdum because clearly he thought there should be no such interventions from the board in either case. Both he and SC made it clear that these decisions should be left to the "professionals" who get paid to do this work.
No one seemed to want to make the argument that the "professionals" often get it wrong, that they are influenced by the latest edu fads, (or by conflicts of interest), and that an agenda-driven, groupthink mentality often prevails that legitimates bad policy and bad decisions. It's not like that these are abstract possibilities--they have characterized the district's m.o. for the last decade.
As KSM pointed out, this wasn't really an interventionist policy, but one that would be applied only rarely, especially if the board and the super were on the same wavelength, as we hope they will be in the near future. The problem, of course, lies in that they are often not on the same wavelength, and the board, as the representative of community interests, should have some role in adjudicating disputes when there's reason to believe staff and the super got it wrong.
The final vote was 4-3 in favor of the amendment.
And what makes you think the board would get it right when the "professionals" don't? There are no qualifications or experience required to hold a seat on the board.
another mom
DistrictWatcher
Here's an example: Mercer MS was given some sort of waiver to use Saxon math. (the public still is not sure how this came about) And it looks like they are seeing some success. Let's say your MS asks for this same waiver and it is denied. FINAL decision, no appeal. Would you be happy with that or would you like the ability to appeal to the school board?
Personally, I am impressed with the 4-3board!
And lets remember that the board does not have to accept the policy that the super proposes. They are well within their rights to vote it down, and tell staff to go back to the drawing board and try again. They can do that until staff presents a policy that is acceptable to them.
But once the board goes ahead and approves the policy I believe that they should step aside and allow the Super and staff to uphold it.
Another mom
The link on the Feb 1 Board Agenda still has a draft document. How does the Board review and approve a plan that has yet to be finalized?
The document is a summary of building conditions and capacities. Shouldn't there be a list of capital projects for the next 10 years?
confused
House Republicans claim to spare K-12
House Republicans offered a “fund education first” budget Thursday, highlighting what they depicted as $580 million more for K-12 public schools than Gov. Chris Gregoire’s budget would allocate.
... Are Pres DeBell and Ms. Carr speaking of the same class of professionals that brought us Everyday Math and Discovering?
This really is absurd.
====================
District Pass rates for 9th grade low-income algebra students on the OSPI Algebra EoC
38.5% : Seattle (Discovering Algebra)
29.6% : Bethel (Discovering Algebra)
33.1% : Everett (Discovering Algebra)
31.4% : Highline (Discovering Algebra)
43.8% : State average
56.7% : Clover Park (Holt Algebra)
51.3% : Spokane (Holt Algebra)
Percent of Students at level 1 (well below basic) for 9th grade low-income algebra students on the OSPI Algebra EoC
36.7% : Seattle (Discovering Algebra)
38.4% : Bethel (Discovering Algebra)
40.6% : Everett (Discovering Algebra)
43.1% : Highline (Discovering Algebra)
30.8% : State average
19.7% : Clover Park (Holt Algebra)
28.3% : Spokane (Holt Algebra)
================================
District Pass rates for 9th grade Black algebra students on the OSPI Algebra EoC
26.5% : Seattle (Discovering Algebra) (19% of SPS population is Black)
31.9% : Bethel (Discovering Algebra) (10.8% Black)
23.7% : Everett (Discovering Algebra) (4.1% Black)
40.0% : Highline (Discovering Algebra) (11.1% Black)
35.9% : State average
54.9% : Clover Park (Holt Algebra) (13.9% Black)
39.0% : Spokane (Holt Algebra) (3.0% Black)
Percent of Students at level 1 (well below basic) for 9th grade Black algebra students on the OSPI Algebra EoC
45.2% : Seattle (Discovering Algebra)
40.7% : Bethel (Discovering Algebra)
36.8% : Everett (Discovering Algebra)
41.5% : Highline (Discovering Algebra)
37.9% : State average
24.4% : Clover Park (Holt Algebra)
36.6% : Spokane (Holt Algebra)
=====================
The "Professionals" put in EDM and Discovering and would like to continue with same. .... Based on results there is no evidence that the "supposed" professionals are "in fact" professionals.
Seattle Education Access (no not that SEA)
Why the document said draft all over it, I don't know.
That this "plan" doesn't dovetail with BEX IV is a good question.
Seems like using MAP data as the gate keeper is an incredibly unreliable way to determine eligibility.
We have tested in another district and it seems like they used the CoGAT combined with so many other things, including a piece of "art" submitted by the student. Go figure.
-another confused parent
Those math numbers are very disturbing. My daughter is in 1st grade APP. I am a white, non-low income financial analyst who does complex "math" all day, every day.
My spouse and I cannot figure out what the heck our 1st grader's homework is asking her to do so we are no help! We just leave it incomplete since it is absurd. I am very upset!!!!
"The recalibrated percentiles do not change eligibility for advanced learning (Spectrum or APP) students. Original scores from the Spring 2011 MAP test will still be used for eligibility for advanced learning for 2012-13."
If it hadn't been for the MAP testing, I don't think her teacher would have ever known how much she struggles to compensate.
"If your child's Seattle Public Schools MAP scores changed dramatically when they were recently recalibrated, KUOW Public Radio wants to hear from you! Contact KUOW Education Reporter Ann Dornfeld at adornfeld@kuow.org or 206-221-7082."
Signed,
MadronaMom
Part-time homeschooling is easier in middle school due to block scheduling. I'm not sure how schools handle it for elementary.
The main state requirement is that you still do annual testing to show student progress.
HSing parent
We've seen this kind of math and been perplexed, too. Our insight? They're supposed to guess and try different solutions, not try to solve the system. It doesn't work for all kids, but our 1st grader did get the concept of the system (and even tentatively, the graphic representation of two lines) when given this kind of problem.
I'm not apposed to the Maghreb curriculum like many here are (though I do think more algorithmic instruction should be provided to those who benefit from it) But, all parents need better info on how the kids are being asked to do some of the problems, especially the ones we know more systematic solutions to.
zb
(captcha word is "graph" weird)
zb
HSing parent
-JC.
It's called "camp" but is considered part of the 6th grade curriculum. So, $150 per kid to go to "camp".
I thought school was free?
And what about all the left behind kids? Are they marked absent or what? What about the "free lunchers" - the poor kids who are humiliated due to their financial status?
And what about the kids who transfered into McClure too late to make the permission slip deadline? Who is watching out for them while their friends go for a week of fun and they stay behind in empty classrooms?
The buck for this mess stops squarely on Sarah Pritchett's desk.
"You are part of the social equity conversation or you are not part of the conversation."
OcccupyTheDistrict
Check this out!
--enough already
I was pleasantly surprised at how tidy they looked, and how much creativity and industry was on display everywhere. I didn't see one dump. I didn't see one place I wouldn't have been pleased to send my kids. The people I met were lovely, too.
Superficial, sure. But we have a lot to be grateful for and to build on here in this district. I have to think a visit to most other urban districts might not have been so cheerful.
Not only that...
How many urban districts are outscoring the state average on standardized tests? SPS's outscoring the state average waaaay preceded Enfield's arrival. How dare she take the credit from the years of hard work and dedication of SPS's finest (those who love, teach and work with Seattle's kids)!
Eric, you and your colleagues rock!
Good luck on the election.
--enough already
In your opinion, what does a high quality school look and sound like? How important is student achievement? What evidence of student achievement do you consider most important. How would you support closing the achievement gap as president of SEA?
D
a. (3.14 X r^2 x h) - (3(4/3 X 3.14 X r^3)) =
b. (3.14 X r^2 x h) - (22/7(4/3 X 3.14 X r^2))
c. (3.14 X r^2 x h) - (3(4/3 X 3.14 X r^3)) X 3
5th grade MAP question...huh? True!
This has got to stop...NOW!
Of course one is tempted to remind her that history, art, music, civics, and all sorts of other subjects aren't on the state tests.
They won't get done, Ms. Munn? And that's okay with LEV, a supported of everything the state tests drive?
One is tempted to comment thusly to Ms. Munn, but one cannot because LEV doesn't let one post comments on LEV. One evidently was too strident or something once, one was...Alas.
Luckily, one other succinctly summed it up for one in the first comment on Munn's disregard for everything not currently tested:
"...you stated “What gets measured, gets done.” Are you sure that is what you meant to say?
It is precisely the immeasurable that contributes most to the growth of an individual and a student, 'measuring' everything is precisely what is wrong with the outsider so-called 'reformers' who haven’t a clue what it really takes to educate each and every student, in my humble opinion, while each assesment just overloads an already taxed teaching staff with yet another test to teach to.
Disappointing, but I see that this isn’t about the students anymore for LEV. moving my support to the educators who have dedicated their lives to their students instead."
-but, still not a MAP fan
In your opinion, what does a high quality school look and sound like?
I have long maintained that an experienced educator can get a pretty good feel for what's happening in a school or classroom in just a few minutes. (Don't freak out. I know the details are important, too. I've been teaching for 25 years.) But if I pop into a building's main office for a couple of minutes after school, even after most students are gone, here's what I notice: signs for student clubs, student art & work, pleasant, helpful, engaged, curious staff, clean, well-lit, freshly painted spaces. Etc, etc. I think the programs we've had that have placed artists in schools to work with students have been particularly effective in creating some beauty in kid's lives.
I wasn't trying to suggest that we don't have things we should work on in this district, either with the physical buildings, or with teaching & learning. I was just communicating an overall quick and unexpected impression from my little odyssey.
How important is student achievement?
Well, that's the entire goal of the enterprise, isn't it? I do insist that achievement is more that what's measured on the MAP test.
What evidence of student achievement do you consider most important?
A classroom teacher's grades, which are based on working with that student day after day, and a wide variety of assessment techniques. I do support the idea of teachers working together to compare, calibrate, and establish performance or achievement benchmarks.
How would you support closing the achievement gap as president of SEA?
We are working hard to rebrand the so-called "achievement gap" as an "opportunity gap". We need to dump the MAP test and shift those resources to, for instance, opening school libraries into evening hours, staffed with professional teachers. We need consistent, available-everywhere, early childhood programs. We need smaller class sizes. We need consistent math tutoring programs. We need graduation specialists that follow students and see them through. We need to push the legislature into upholding the Supreme Court decision to fully fund public education.
This is an expensive, time burden test to grade. So it's very expensive for the state to measure. But as we move more toward multiple choice questions and standardized tests, this is one area a kid's creativity and critical thinking combined with the ability to display can be measured.
Writing style may change, but I would argue writing matter just as much as STEM as we tweet, text, blog, email our way into tomorrow's world. As we move our workworld/ social world to laptops, tablets, ipads, facebook, etc., you better teach these kids how to write and to do it well! Please keep the writing test on the MSP.
Keep the writing on the wall
Find another fight to get your panties in a bunch about. Scholarships cover the cost of those unable to pay. If a child enrolls on the day they are leaving to camp, the paperwork can just be filled out by the parent and off the child goes.
Find another cause.....40 other schools do it the same way.
Sounds like you do not like the principal and are trying to get others on your misguided crusade.
A teacher
Thanks for the heads up that many other schools have camp.
As far as implementing camp week, understanding what can happen with camp is not what actually happens.
For example, scholarships are not an answer if the kid is too embarrassed to ask for one.
And if camp is considered part of the curriculum, what about kids who are not allowed to attend because their parents object to boy/girl over-nights?
McClure's camp is poorly planned and poory executed with no one person in charge. Maybe your school is different? Maybe you don't have any left out kids trying not to cry in the hallways? Or all your kids have suitable camping gear so they don't freeze at night?
I still say McClure's program is a disgrace and it's Sarah Pritchett's responsibility.
Does anyone care enough to "change" things?
OTD
First, the waiver policy amendment that allows for an appeal to the Board.
There are a lot of problems here and they are all crossover problems.
First, the Board allowed the staff to write the policy. WRONG. The Board should write the policy. Policy is their responsibility, not the staff's. The result was a policy that the Board doesn't really like. If the Board had written a policy that they actually liked, then they wouldn't have to amend it.
Second, the policy should have required the superintendent to write a clear, transparent procedure for waivers complete with criteria for making the decision. The detail should have been in the procedure, not the policy. The policy should be brief and say little more than something like "The superintendent shall establish a procedure with clear criteria for schools to be granted waivers from board-adopted materials." That procedure, like all superintendent procedures, would be subject to Board review. Another fail. There is no procedure, there are no clear, transparent criteria.
So the staff crossed the line and did the Board's job of writing the policy. The Board allowed it. Then one did the staff's job of writing a clear set of criteria, so the determination is open to politics. As a result, the Board then felt it had to reach across the line to meddle in the superintendent's job and allow for an appeal to the Board. If the superintendent had done her job and written a procedure with clear, transparent criteria for approving waivers, then there would be no need for appeals. Moreover, appeals to the Board would be based on objective data - did the waiver request meet the criteria? - instead of politics.
The governance/management line is crossed most often when the someone leaves their job undone. If the Board had done their job, then there would have been no need for the superintendent and the staff to cross the line and do the governance work for them. And if the superintendent and the staff had done their job then there would have been no need for the Board to cross the line and do the management work for them.
These materials are the worst.
My younger daughter fought valiantly against them in the sixth grade, reported that her entire seventh grade year was a total waste, and refused to attend her algebra class in the 8th grade. I taught her algebra at home that year.
The District officials wanted to blame the disaster on "quality of instruction" or "fidelity of implementation", but, in truth, the materials are just crap.
Actual question from CMP II homework for a middle school student:
"Which is greater, three or four? Explain."
The spiraling curriculum taught them that if they could just fake it for week, the topic would go away.
They get a workbook and an idea gets introduced in most absurdly simple way. They start by doing ridiculously easy work, but all of it horribly labor intensive - making bar charts in which they spend ten minutes writing all of the required labels and twenty seconds drawing the data. It goes along like this for about three weeks. They hate it because the work is so stupid but exhausting. Then, all of sudden, they are supposed to have this brilliant insight into how to solve the problems - they are expected to discover the algorithm. There's about a week in there when they are made to feel stupid and inadequate because they can't discover what the greatest mathematicians in history discovered.
They come to me for help. I can't made heads or tails from the workbook - there's no instruction in it and the publisher has (inexplicably) re-named all of the mathematical concepts. I cut through all the crap and give them the algorithm, I show them how it works but it only makes them cry because that's not how the teacher wants them to do it. They are caught between one boss, the teacher, telling them to do it one way - a way they can't understand - and another boss, the parent, telling them to do it another way, which makes sense but is punished by the first boss. And it is the first boss who has the rewards and punishments.
They go back to school and pretend that they know what they are doing for another week. They fake it as best they can. Then, mercifully, the whole topic goes away and never comes back. The nightmare is over. Even the workbook goes away and is never seen again. There is never any later reference to the subject in class or in the homework. Instead, they start another workbook with another three weeks of insultingly simple but exasperatingly labor intensive exercises.
After running through this cycle a few times they stopped coming to me for help. They would just confidently slide through the first weeks of each workbook, then fake their way through the final weeks until the workbook went away. They got good enough grades, but they didn't learn a single thing.
That's not the teacher. That's the materials. There is no way that any teacher could make those materials work - there aren't enough exercises in the books. After all, once the kids get the concept it's time to move on to the next thing. There's no effort to practice for mastery. And the spiraling curriculum is written into the books as well.
Even if a kid suddenly understood a concept from an earlier workbook, there's no opportunity to go back and review it.
This post should be required reading for anyone who has anything to do with math materials in SPS.
In our school no child has to ask for a scholarship. If the parents don't pay, that child gets a scholarship. Paying for camp is a donation, not a fee. We can predict the percentage who won't pay & budget accordingly.
If a family feels uncomfortable sending their child to sleep overnight for cultural reasons, we have volunteer parents who bring those children for the day, then take them home again in the evening.
Kids who transfer to the school the day before can still fill out permission forms. They can also come later with the parents who are driving the daytime attendees.
Previous classes have done equipment drives for our supplies closet so that we can outfit kids who don't have rain gear or sleeping bags.
Once in a while we have a child not go to camp and stay in another class at school. But every obstacle is removed, so if that happens it is the family's choice.
I think it helps to have parents involved in the planning. It is very time consuming.
Good luck.
- gone camping
McClure isn't profiting from the fees collected. Fees cover the cost of camp and bus/transportation costs.
Teachers and/or staff spoke with students who needed scholarships, parents were emailed and called and every possible effort was made to match up scholarships with any student who needed one. Every child who needed a scholarship got one, no questions asked. Thousands of dollars in scholarships, simply because the student, parent or teacher asked.
If parents don't want their kids to go, that is their choice, but don't put that on the school or principal. The kids who don't go are not marked absent, they come to school and have activities planned for them. Only a handful of students didn't go, for reasons of parent preference or other personal reasons, but money wasn't one of them.
New to the district students could sign up until the day of.
The kids stay in heated cabins so no one freezes.
There are lots of good Occupy causes to get worked up about, this just isn't one of them.
-move along, nothing to see here