Coming Soon? Hamilton International MS Annex at Lincoln?
A reader asked for a separate thread on the district possibly creating an annex at Lincoln for Hamilton overflow. From my original post:
Comments from capacity expert, Kellie LaRue:
- From a parent who attended the SCPTSA meeting on Monday, Flip Herndon told several parents that they are considering an annex for Hamilton.
There is space at JAMS and Eckstein but rather than admit the enrollment made a mistake by sending 5 feeder schools to Hamilton, the smallest, least flexible middle school, they are going to plow ahead with an un-workable and expensive facilities solution to an enrollment planning goof.My only comment is that these issues are and have been known to the district. Why it feels like capacity management appears to have no real vision or explainable thought pattern is troubling.
Comments from capacity expert, Kellie LaRue:
Once again, Lincoln is expected to act as if it is the Hogwart's room of requirement. That somehow Lincoln can magically expand, contract and morph to solve all the capacity problems in the north end.
Lincoln is pretty darn full. Full of what is a question that seems to be unclear but full as every nook and cranny in the building has been being used to solve a wide variety of small'ish capacity problems.Another of Kellie's comments:
It is notable that during the BEX IV planning process that Lincoln was scheduled to be used as the interim location for both the Decatur property (Thornton Creek) school project AND the Olympic Hills rebuild.
Thornton Creek is now a build-in-place, despite the need to add even more portables for new homerooms next year. Olympic Hill triggered the opening of Cedar Park to be used as in interim location.
So if there is not enough room at Lincoln so that i can be used as an interim location, how can there be enough room for an annex???
An annex would need to be fairly sizable in order to be academically feasible, comply with union regulations for teachers and provide a middle school experience.
Hamilton was designed for 800 students. At 800 students, the library and computer rooms work well. The gym works well. The cafetorium works, not well, but OK.
The tricky thing about flex space is that you need some empty space to make it work well. In other words, you need space for the dominos to fall. When there is no extra space the sequencing that is built into the design of flex space works less-well.
Hamilton can handle 900 farily well. When HIMS first hit 900 students, there needed to be some building modification to the design to make it work.
At 1,000 students, there are some significant challenges. In other words, it can be made-to-work. Made to work requires more effort because you are no longer working WITH the design. At 1,000 students, you hit the tipping point.
Over 1,000 students, then all of a sudden, the building requires significant resources to simply be traffic cop, rather than be there for education. When HIMS enrollment went over 1,000 students, mitigation staffing was needed just to hold things together.
So you have a building designed for cohorts of about 250 - 300, or approximately 12 elementary school homerooms per cohort.
This school is then promised to FIVE elementary schools. BF Day, West Woodland, Greenlake, JSIS and McDonald. It is then promised to HC from McClure, Whitman and Wilson Pacific attendance areas. The math just does not work.
Comments
Speak Out
We finally moved our kids to private school because of things like this. I just don't have the stomach to watch the district implode because no one is thinking more than 30 seconds into the future. How do people make such horrendous plans and where are the people telling them their ideas are terrible. The district is making terrible situations even worse with poor thinking. We are at a seriously critical point in the district where all the decisions need to be perfect just to keep the capacity even remotely doable. I don't get the sense the district is clear on the importance or the urgency.
The district has zero money to waste, yet they waste so much with incompetence.
-cried uncle
I'm a little less clear like others have pointed out what space they are thinking of using as an annex and when in the Lincoln building. Between now and 2017 it seems mostly booked.
1. "There was discussion of this a couple of years ago, and it was dismissed as unworkable. What has changed?"
What has "changed" is that "then," it wasn't their idea. Their idea was to force a whole bunch of kids north to JAMS by claiming that Lincoln was totally inappropriate. "Now" it IS their idea. So it is a great idea now, but was stupid back then!
2. How do people make such horrendous plans. . .?
Well, that would seem to be the $64,000 question. Really. When busy, non-expert parents can easily see how horrendous their plans are, how on earth can they not see it? I have been at a loss for words for years. And no, mayoral control would not help. The City has shown itself, through its levy, to be at least as capable, if not more so, of coming up with horrendous plans while ignoring real problems in front of their noses.
3. [A]nd where are the people telling them their ideas are terrible.
Well, hmmm. Parents -- really smart capable ones like Kellie and others -- have been telling them (and providing real facts and analysis to back their views) for years. And dozens or hundreds of "just common sense parents," who lack the brilliant analyses but can still see that the light is a train and not a tunnel entrance, have been chiming in as the Greek Chorus -- but we are "only the hoi polloi," The "great unwashed mass of parents and voters who know nothing," Not only should we not be listened to, evidently, but even if we are randomly right, they have to discount whatever position we take, it would seem, lest we get any uppity ideas about having our voices count.
The staff COULD/should listen to the Supe -- but every Supe (including, evidently, Nyland, if he thinks he has even 5 minutes to dandle charters and early ed on his knee while ignoring capacity management, SPED, the failure to get books to kids by the start of school, etc. etc.) seems to fall silent and let the staff run amok, kissing up DFER and the Alliance, while ignoring the Board, parents, federal and state law, and the laws of common sense.
And the staff could/should listen to the Board -- but the Board panders to them by not calling them out when they are ridiculous, and by not holding Dr. Nyland accountable for whether the staff does a decent job or not. So -- the staff continues to come up with terrible ideas, and the Supe continues to countenance it.
3. We are at a seriously critical point in the district where all the decisions need to be perfect just to keep the capacity even remotely doable. I don't get the sense the district is clear on the importance or the urgency.
Bingo! I don't get the sense that they have any clue either.
4. The district has zero money to waste, yet they waste so much with incompetence.
Bingo again!
Board members? Dr. Nyland? Anyone? Hello?
Jan
Nailed it. I pay attention and certainly Kellie does and we can't follow the bouncing ball either.
"I don't get the sense the district is clear on the importance or the urgency."
Two things to that point.
Oh, I think Dr. Herndon gets it but I'm not sure if he and the rest of Facilities alone can do the work. Clearly, program placement is a huge factor.
Two,I'm not sure that the rest of the senior staff really care. They have their initiatives and fiefdoms.
My kid was part of both splits at Lowell (first time when it split between TM and Lowell and then the move over to Lincoln), so I have done my share of trying to talk to district staffers. That is a frustration unto itself. These "discussions" are only meant for the district to convert the parents to their terrible ideas.
Oh, I miss Stephen Colbert. I loved the line he said about GWB's administration: it's they are "rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg." I know this is a bit of hyperbole, but it does bring to mind our current situation with school capacity.
-cried uncle
Facmac's revised rec last spring was basically build ONLY a big (really big) high school at Wilson Pacific, convert Lincoln to a big MS - it would hold more kids than Hamilton does and the only "flex" in the system now is at middle school level b/c the other north MS can take portables, so as long as you serve the kids in that area, there is space in other points in the system for middle school, albeit portables.
But the high schools in the north don't have any flex -- no space for portables or expansion, except miniscule additions that are very expensive per seat, such as a second floor on part of Hale, that type of thing ($$$ per seat gained). So a high school should be on the WP site, leaving an enlarged MS at Lincoln instead.
Then a big elem could go in Hamilton.
That was the most seats per dollar fastest. A big middle school in Lincoln and the big elem. in Hamilton could happen basically immediately. It makes more sense than dividing current middle school over two campuses.
The plan to use the large, flat WP site for a rather smallish MS and big but not big enough elem. was developed well before the levy vote, therefore based on much older data. The numbers grew even faster than anyone expected. (Except maybe Kellie!). The seats added in that plan aren't just not enough, they're also not flexible enough. District can't expand Lincoln HS on that lot, just like you can't expand Ballard or Roosevelt HS or Hamilton MS -- so there's no way to add even more HS seats if they're needed. out there public somewhere.
So yes, people have told the district that the plan needed to be significantly revised based on better data, BEFORE planning went too far. Last year.
Facmac was never asked to another meeting. It's a ship that just doesn't turn.
And you know what - lots of people would like to go private. But guess what? They're not building new private schools either!!!! Lots of kids, same number of seats at private middle and high schools. More and more people who used to go to private schools can't get in there either.
Signed: tired
District never had another Facmac meeting. None all year.
When I said "it's a ship that just doesn't turn," I meant the district, not Facmac. The beauty of facmac was in fact that it was pretty nimble and could change based on changing data - and that multiple members were data wonks and developed competing systems of data, from different sources and using different formulas, not wedded to one and only one way of predicting numbers. But all the numbers on the committee pointed to a huge huge huge enrollment crisis growing faster than anyone at district was willing to admit.
That reliance on numbers/data, and actual understanding of the numbers, was why facmac, unlike a lot of staff, was willing to say "initial recommendations are no longer sufficient/revisions to the plan must be done to reflect numbers on the ground."
you know.
Competence.
Sigh.
-- tired.
Thanks for your clarification. I did NOT mean to sweep parents into my criticism of the central school administration. Parents, those paying attention and willing to voice concerns, have been among the consistent voices calling for the sort of fact based governance described (in its absence) by "tired." If my cranky post intimated otherwise -- my apologize to District parents! You rock! And you deserve better decision-making from the District!
Jan
While this would be a SWEEEET plan for our family and our APP kids - they can walk to school! Have high-school-level auditorium, bandrooms, labs, little theater, practice rooms, 4!!! Gyms - in middle school (too bad no planetarium like their cousin's school in Long Island, but we're not greedy, we'll make do with the one at UW, for now) - I really don't see the Wallingford-Woodland-Fremont-etc. families being thrilled with a plan where their kids take the bus 40-60 blocks up to 90th and Aurora for school while APP kids are bused into Wallingford from all N Seattle to take over their "former" Neighborhood Middle School and their "supposed-to-be" new Neighborhood High School. I also don't see the Ballard families who have been expecting their kids to be able to go back to Ballard High - after Lincoln become the High School for the QA kids - supporting this plan either, nor the families who moved into Wallingford and overpaid $$$ on their homes for the immersion schools, nor the ELL, Spectrum, General Ed and Special Ed families expecting HIMS, nor the Lincoln Lynx Alumni Association (who has been giving up to $30,000 in scholarships each year for decades; and who throws an all-class luncheon every year at their country clubs, whom told me at the Wurst Fest that DEFINITELY the District WILL reopen the school as LINCOLN LYNX HS), nor the LL Class of '81 who said they worked long and hard back then to have Lincoln declared a Historic Structure so the District couldn't sell it like they did to Queen Anne High (they didn't trust the promises of the Sup at the time, said he never answered a straight question, TEENAGE.CYNICISM.RULES, y'all).
Maybe Facmac can convince them that it's okay for Wallingford-GL-WW-FM+++ neighborhoods to give up their local Middle School AND High School and send all their kids to WP for... um...
Yeahhh, not seeing it, but I could be wrong, it happens. Mazel tov, I mean it. My kids would love to have a Little Theater for their plays, and unlike y'all whom are only thinking of what's BEST for the District, we want the Little Theater, oh, and the gyms, we love sports (and the practice rooms, we love music too).
CCA
And no, I don't think anyone was suggesting that Lincoln be a middle school for just APP.
I think Kellie is looking out for the best options for all the kids in the district. I think her suggestions would be a much better solution than the district's.
Putting a 2000 seat high school at the WP site, with its own fields, would make much more sense and create more seats overall, which the north end is desperate for. I know I'm worried about my son's high school career (class of 2019) and whether there will be enough places to put kids after 2016.
Momof2
High school students would be much happier to have a state of the art new building with fields than to be able to walk to Lincoln.
HCC students from northwest Seattle would attend Lincoln Middle School along with the neighborhood and language immersion students currently assigned to HIMS.
The only elementary students who would be affected are the HCC students at Lincoln.
Parents who overpaid for their homes in Wallingford to get their children into language immersion schools? They'd still have access to a neighborhood middle school @ Lincoln. (And they don't get any extra consideration because they were able to buy their way into a school lots of other people wanted.)
Lincoln High School alumni? Why would their desires be considered in these decisions?
I would add that Licton Springs/Pinehurst will still need a site. We could build a small K-8 on the Wilson site or move them to the old Thornton Creek building (there's no plan for that) or possibly to the Webster site.
I don't remember the FACMAC recs calling for a middle school and high school at Wilson-Pacific. I believe they recommended a high school at Wilson-Pacific, a large middle school at Lincoln, and a large elementary school at Hamilton.
- North-end Mom
HP
This is not true. Not ever as I recall. The district and the City had low-level talks about the district giving up some of the acreage around Memorial for a parking structure on Mercer so the district could build there.
As far as I know now, that idea is dead.
The district will NOT tear that stadium down. They need it for sports and graduations. Not going to happen.
Joe Wolf made the following comment on your blog post Seattle Public Education Updates from April 2nd:
Joe Wolf4/2/15, 12:31 PM
Regarding the Amgen campus:
- Total building square footage is over 700,000. Our comprehensive high schools are around 200,000. What that means:
- SPS would have had to both (a) determine if there was a good way to use about 30% of the campus as a high school.
- Persuade Amgen to "subdivide" the campus, and sell as two properties.
- Persuade Amgen to sell SPS its share at cost that pencils out re. a public high school, not Class A r&d office space. For reference the campus cost Amgen about $800M total to develop.
- Persuade Amgen to agree to a "layaway plan" that matches SPS' ability/timeline to come up with ~$100M.
- Access. IMHO it's problematic for any large institution/employer.
SPS staff is doing preliminary investigation/scoping work around a new comprehensive high school on the Memorial Stadium site that preserves the current stadium function as well. See the new campus for Union City (NJ) High School for an example of this co-use on a tight site.
Reply
The size of the Lincoln site is ideal for a Middle School or K-8 because the north lot could possibly be converted to an athletic field so that Hamilton would finally have a sports field. A middle school or K-8 has much lower parking requirements that can likely be accommodated with the existing street parking.
The original Hamilton site could become an alternative Elementary or K-8 (the Hamilton site is the smallest MS in Seattle, but does appear to comply with District standards for an elementary.
A permanent high school at Lincoln does not make sense because there is no room for an athletic field (the site only meets MS standards). What might be reasonable for an interim use, is simply not acceptable for the longterm in a high school program.
The proper, longterm solution to the high school shortage is to create, buy, beg, steal a high school for Queen Anne/Magnolia to correct the choice by Facilities to sell off the Queen Anne High School building in the 1980's.
Parents! Speak up! Place a K-8 or MS program at Lincoln and create an alternative elementary or K-8 in the Hamilton building. Lobby to create a new high school for Queen Anne/Magnolia, ideal location would be in Interbay someplace.
HF
I think W-P should have been a high school especially since Lincoln appears to be getting minimal upgrades AND has no athletic field at all.
Union City High
Mag mom
Lincoln was a high school from 1907 to 1981, they had all of the athletic teams that other schools have then and now (except for ones like frisbee, lacrosse, crew) and competed throughout the state as AA and AAA school: football, cross country, volleyball, softball, golf, bowling, basketball, swimming, diving, wrestling, baseball, track and field, tennis, soccer. The Lynx girls basketball team went to state twice and wrestling team several times at end of 70's. Golf was #1 in Metro. They had the state's #1 long distance runner, #1 sprinter and #1 wrestlers in several weights , and one of the top relay teams, shot putters & tennis players in the state. I heard they were also quite successful in earlier years, especially in the 50's and 60's when Lincoln had 2,500+ students. They practiced at Woodland Park which is 5 blocks away.
Their newspaper the Totem won many national awards, all the issues are in school archives. Maybe you should read a few if you're interested in how their sport teams did.
Since SPS lost the Supreme Court case and chose to switch to a Neighborhood Assignment Plan, they can't assign students from Hamilton's and Lincoln's assignment area to another area's school, and have students from outside of their assignment area bused to Hamilton and Lincoln, unless they abandon the Neighborhood Assignment Plan for every school. As I said before, such a plan would be good for our family, but not equitable under the district's current assignment plan. Right now this area's high school is Roosevelt, which will have no room for the coming huge increase starting with the class of 2023 (in 4th grade now). Lincoln High is being open for those kids.
CCA
I really hope SPS can make this plan work. Another high school in downtown/central area would be the best solution.
Whenever a non-attendance area program is placed in a building, children who live nearby are forced to attend schools farther away. If this were not legal, you'd see families who live near Pathfinder, TOPS, JSIS, etc successfully suing the district. There will be children living in the Licton Springs area who will not be able to attend the new Wilson Pacific elementary school.
Unless the fields at Woodland Park are sitting empty in the afternoons and evenings, they're not available for Lincoln High School teams.
As well, ed specs have changed and I'm not sure how the district would cover PE.
I sure it could be done but I'm not sure it will be done.
The isn't if the parks department will "give" a field to the school district at Lower Woodland for Lincoln to use.
The better question is if parks department can come to an agreement for Lincoln to "use" certain facilities at Lower Woodland for specific activities at specified times.
Many years ago, because Ballard High School's field is less than useless, the track team would occasionally reserve the West Seattle Stadium track for practice through the normal process for such things.
There shouldn't be any reason the district can't come to an agreement with the parks department for an ongoing arrangement for the fields at Lower Woodland. Besides, teams practice generally from 3-5PM, which is just before "prime time."
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