How Much Time is the SBAC Taking at Your School?
I ask because I'm seeing various comments on this issue. So let us know what you have heard and seen at your school (across any grade).
For example, one reader said that Garfield had a couple of late starts this week ....at 11 am. That's pretty late for the school day to begin. Maybe leadership there thought it better for students to NOT come and have to hang around doing almost nothing rather than coming later.
I also heard from a reader at Ingraham who said her daughter took the test (as a junior) and didn't find it all that hard but that she was very annoyed with sitting around for 45 minutes.
It all adds up to lost instructional time of which there are several factors:
- the actual time to take an untimed test
- the actual time for set-up to take the test (which apparently can be anywhere from 15 minutes to almost an hour).
- time that is test prep (how you take the test)
- time that is test prep (for what is on the test)
Not to mention down time for computer issues.
Recently, Superintendent Nyland blithely said that it will take time for SBAC to run well.
You can't say that there are issues to iron out but then continue to give a test that counts for some students, isn't necessary for others and may, in the end, count for teachers.
For example, one reader said that Garfield had a couple of late starts this week ....at 11 am. That's pretty late for the school day to begin. Maybe leadership there thought it better for students to NOT come and have to hang around doing almost nothing rather than coming later.
I also heard from a reader at Ingraham who said her daughter took the test (as a junior) and didn't find it all that hard but that she was very annoyed with sitting around for 45 minutes.
It all adds up to lost instructional time of which there are several factors:
- the actual time to take an untimed test
- the actual time for set-up to take the test (which apparently can be anywhere from 15 minutes to almost an hour).
- time that is test prep (how you take the test)
- time that is test prep (for what is on the test)
Not to mention down time for computer issues.
Recently, Superintendent Nyland blithely said that it will take time for SBAC to run well.
You can't say that there are issues to iron out but then continue to give a test that counts for some students, isn't necessary for others and may, in the end, count for teachers.
Comments
Just Wondering
Sure, some announcements are good, but it's usually not important or could be done more efficiently and it's just public speaking practice for ASB kids.
And swearing allegiance to flag and country every day? Great way to devalue it, how about once a year and make it mean something.
I'd rather have 4 longer days a week and cut down on lost time to transportation as well, and it would help force a 4 day work week for all parents.Aren't we way more productive than a hundred years ago?
Counter
Ideally, they'd bus kids from Garfield to the JSCEE for testing. That would allow other students to come to school.
It's not just these three days. There were 11:00 starts on October 16th, February 4th and 5th and there will be three more next week.
SBAC time is a problem. As are the questions, the use of it, the cost of it, etc.
The underlying problem with the SBAC is it (and it's endorsers) operate from the premise that everything important in a student's life can be measured with quantative tools. This leads to the belief that if it can't be measured, then it doesn't exist.
Anti-SBAC folks need to be careful not to fall into the same trap, thinking that the only problems with it are the ones that we can measure, point to, collect data on.
It is perfectly fine to hold the value, for example, that 1 Billion dollars is better spent on reducing class size than on SBAC tests. Data and research are always political functions. i.e. Class size may be less researched (and therefore have less data) than test scores. This does not mean test scores are "more proven," it simply means they are more funded.
Often deep values (morality, ethics, love, kindness, responsibility, commitment) evade measurement and data collection. This DOES point to our very limited ways of thinking and DOES NOT point to their nonexistence.
Quantative data can be a good tool. But it would be a mistake to think it is the only relevant piece of the conversation. It would also be a mistake to think that funding always goes toward worthwhile research. Often what is researched are the interests of the researchers and not the interests of the parents, students.
ManyQuestions
Larry Nyland should donate his compensation. The man doesn't need money. He's the Buddha.
Westside
-Test TA
-Didn't SBAC
To what end? Noise, kids who will text answers? I don't get that.
Many questions, great points.
-Test TA
On top of all this, my son's algebra class spent about 3 weeks of classtime preparing for the SBAC math test, which focuses on geometry subjects (the typical 8th grade curriculum). Their teacher recapped the 7th grade geometry class topics to refresh their memories for the SBAC.
Marmauset
-overtested
Mixed-grade morning classes would have had lower attendance during those three weeks, but those are primarily electives and the instruction continued (at least to some extent). Students who opted out went to the library if their core, grade-level class was involved in testing, but they were able to leave and attend their mixed-grade classes that were meeting.
HIMSmom
Too much
Jan
Smarter Balanced assessments schedule
Student results: Four weeks after a student finishes a subject test, the preliminary results are sent to the district.
District results: Four weeks after the entire district finishes testing, the results go to the district.
Parent reports: Eight weeks after the district completes testing, the state sends individual student reports to the district. It’s up to the district to send the reports to parents.
Public results: The state plans to release full results in August
School districts start receiving early results on Smarter Balanced tests by Sarah Tully
-waiting
Glad I left Seattle
What I know is there were 3 half days for just the test: From the morning bell until 12:15pm. That right there is a huge amount of thine.
But add to that the 'class room activities', I have no info as to when those happenef or how long those took.
Also add the minimum of 2 times I know of when the class was brought to the computer lab to do practise tests. There may have been more visits, and I do not know how long those visits took. But it was at least a minimum of 3 hours.
Add to that the 'coaching' the kids got during class that showed them how to 'perform' on the SBAC tests. Sometimes, my kid would bring home papers of worksheets that they did to practice. And, there were also mini-lectures of test prep. "Always put the question into your first paragraph for your essay question", and other 'must-dos' the kids were told in order to maximize potential points.
So, I really cannot tell you how many total hours.
Plus, it varies by kid, because some very unlucky kids had their laptops shut-down (it was an automated reboot that couldn't be stopped and all of the work was lost - so they had to start over!!!).
The inability to do an 'audit trail' as a parent speaks to how unclear the circumstances were around these SBACs. It was a huge waste of everyone's time, IMHO, and those hours and hours would have been far better spent doing DIRECT TEACHING and providing INSTRUCTION to the kids on how to write, or, diagraming sentences (grammar, that old chestnut!), or how to solve geometry problems or develop equations from word problems. Testing never taught my kids anything. In contrast, teachers have taught my kids plenty.
Sorry I could not be more specific about total hours. I will say this: it was at least double the MSP time.
Elementary north
Westside, Sealth must have been like Garfield with 3 late starts (no school on Tuesday so not 4).
Monitor the hallways - yes, required for test security and yes, despite constant berating/reminders students are constantly caught with cell phones on them texting during test breaks. A few were caught texting/sharing questions with friends in other schools during the end of the WASL testing days which was why the insistence of everybody doing them at the same time. A few... not many, so on the one hand it does happen and if we're going to have a test we should pursue solid test security... but as to the complaints about how much time/resources testing is clearly taking I'm there with you.
Many schools (likely all HS) have tutorial periods where non-testing students can work on assignments, have access to computers, get help, etc. Unfortunately many students don't take advantage of this and just take it as a 1/2 day of school so yes - lost learning time in the end for many.
Teacher
We opted out, of course, but apparently I should have written incredibly detailed instructions on other things that needed to be avoided. Next year.
Not all computers work so using any working computers for testing will be the school's priority.
--OldSchoolMusic
Knives don't bring good news
No kid ever learned anything by test taking. They learn by instruction, trying, doing, and then with an audit trail and trying again with more instructional support.
How much time did these SBACs take? Only 1 answer: too much. How much did they cost? That is a way more complex answer: how do you value the student learning opportunity expense?
This was a sloppy beta experiment run on coerced minors with largely uninformed, non-consented parents and guardians. I predict in 3 years it will be gone. 6/28 opted out this year in my kid's elementary class. Next year, I bet half. Third year, it will be a wisp of a showing. Akin to jury nullification. So, they may want this new shiny toy, but, upon public disobedience, they will have to come up with a far more reliable, more reasonable, and less cumbersome test tool. Time will tell.
Wasted Time
1) it's early - wait till those test results get out
2) schools with more minority parents tend to either parents who speak a second language (and may not know there is an option) or school with high F/RL where the parents also don't know there is an option
3) PTAs and PTOs that are organized. Some schools don't have either.
And there's a good question - where the SCPTSA on this? I know they work very hard and have been down in Olympia trying to get the Legislature to get McCleary and 1351 (and support teachers).
And national PTA? They appear to be all in on Common Core and its tests.
Their president's latest message? About Achieve - the group of governors and business people who brought you Common Core.
They push "P21" which is
T"he Partnership for 21st Century Learning (formerly the Partnership for 21st Century Skills) was founded in 2002 as a coalition bringing together the business community, education leaders, and policymakers to position 21st century readiness at the center of US K-12 education.."
Luckily, so far, Washington isn't part of this group.
What's really adorable about the PTA is they have a whole Common Core toolkit that has a section "Don't Politicize the Common Core State Standards!" Politics? CC was put together by governors (elected) and state superintendents (mostly elected or appointed by elected officials).
Oh and the Gates Foundation gave PTA money to rally the troops in four states.
Interestingly, the WAPTSA doesn't have Common Core at the top of their "to do" list.
No matter what your feelings are about Common Core and testing, the fact is that there was NO real national conversation about either until after the fact. Where was this conversation in our state or district?
So I am with Wasted Time - parents need to stand up to this and say "we want the conversation that we didn't get and we'll continue to opt out until we do get it."
Don't let anybody try to shame you by saying you are hurting your school and minority kids because that is exactly what is happening.
The Onion's TED talk spoof
-jp
A colleague of mine is an SPS FRL family with two children in elementary. They immigrated to the U.S. about 9 years. Last week we were talking about standardized tests and how I had opted my children out. At first, she thought this was a bad idea because it would then be very difficult to know how well your child was doing in school. I explained that the standardized tests are not always aligned to classroom teaching, she hung her head in disbelief at the stupidity of the system. (I felt awful for delivering this bad news).
I don't pretend that my colleague's story is indicative of all FRL/immigrant families but it assisted me to change my thoughts about typical reasons for non-involvement. Prior to this, I may have thought it was lack of time, organization, or political will. I'm now beginning to think its a deeper question of faith in the system. Because she isn't able to teach her children herself, she is much more dependent upon SPS to do the right thing by her family and this, I think, may lead to higher levels of (undeserved) trust than families who have the social (and other) resources to challenge the system.
To boot, she mentioned that she can't stand the elementary homework system where assignments come home on random pieces of paper. She longs for books so she could know what chapter her children are supposed to be on so that she could at least put her parental efforts toward enforcement.
This all may sound like a strange post about my friend's experience, but it really was quite moving to me to realize my extreme dissatisfaction with SPS is magnified a thousand fold for some in ways that I had not anticipated. How can we get opt out information to all SPS families?
FriendFriend
The point is not necessarily to say you "should" opt out. But here are the facts and you do, as a parent, have the right to opt your child out.
Then parents can make their own informed decision.
I have to admit my ignorance, are the PTA's all networked together? Are the PTA's in favor of disseminating accurate information about SBAC and standardized testing in general?
I opted my child out of the MAP after one teacher told me that his average MAP scores "proved" to her that he wasn't that bright. (How often do children get informally tracked by their teachers based on MAP??? I imagine I am among the lucky who had a teacher brazen enough to vocalize this pattern. It never would have occurred to me the unspoken influence these test scores have...)
I agree that it isn't a "should" scenario but I am starting to think that there are unfortunate (dare I say underhanded) forces at work to keep families in the dark about testing. I am under the impression that the opt-out movement is potentially very powerful, as it targets profit margins, and it is an activism available to so many SPS families if only the information and rationales were widely available.
FriendFriend
8 days of blocked classes grouped by alphabet, so different classroom configurations. No complaints about that or the test.
There were about three weeks of math test prep, but it was all review of last years math which had been forgotten, so, while there was complaining by the kiddo, it was a good thing to review, I thought.
In ed school we were taught that inexperienced and poor teachers rely too much on the textbook. Coming from a background including a lot of tutoring I disagreed then and still do and tend to teach more from the book than most. Why? When a kid says he can't understand parents ask to see the book/notes - if it is math the parent hasn't seen/done for some time their adult-level reading skills usually makes the lesson doable. Parents (of tutored students) get so frustrated they can't help because they have no idea what's being taught. Ok, tutors too spend part of the period (often) trying to figure out what was taught if it's not a straightforward worksheet.
Ask Johnny to see his notes (since no book) - how good is Johnny at taking notes? See the problem.
Many teachers don't use the textbooks (didn't we just spend $3M on math textbooks) - they either don't like them, think they're better than them, or think it's bad practice to actually use them... making the problem for lower socio-economic students worse because those families are not hiring a tutor.
"one teacher told me that his average MAP scores "proved" to her that he wasn't that bright" - Sorry, that is so totally wrong in so many ways (it's a single data point, what's the pattern of testing/grades to show strengths/weaknesses, multiple intelligences, just plain rude even if Johnny hasn't quite reached the top math scores yet, etc.). I do fear this happens slightly more with math teachers since culturally there is a tendency to associate math skills with intelligence… although I’ve known brilliant mathematicians whose written communication is atrocious… different “bright” areas, but a single test… just sorry.
Johnny
asdf
I'm also hearing that student's can't change their answers.
Whether it's to say as a PTA "we opposed SBAC" would not be my goal. It would be to provide education and discussion around the issue so that parents can make an informed decision.
No one can argue with that.
PTA is supposed to be there for parents and it makes me sad that neither PTA (or CPPS for that matter) will take the lead. Why? Because of funding and incurring the wrath of the powers that be.
Who watches out for parents?
It was an eye opener for them when they asked their child's views on SBAC.
Will they opt their child out next time? Who knows. They don't like what they hear about the testing and are opposed to the data gathering, but they are busy and barely keeping it together with long commute time, sick elderly parents, and the bit here and there volunteering at school and driving kids around to their various activities. While they may have second thoughts about this type of hi-stake testing, I don't know if this will translate to any action. I think there would be more traction if there was stronger school based movement.
parent
So the Hamilton parent that reported that it wasn't that bad this year is probably correct. However, next year, when the school is even more crowded than last year, there will definitely be a big hit on instructional time.
I never thought we would be looking at private schools but ... my youngest child is having such a dramatically different experience than the older siblings. Capacity seems to dictate everything and testing is another capacity problem.
- another hamilton parent