Wednesday, November 13, 2013

Live Blogging from Growth Boundaries

As Blogger is quite wonky on my iPad, not a lot here.

One thing is clear - there will be no delay.  They are going through the 21 amendments and no one is saying, hit pause.

The district has a sheet on Assumptions.  One is a change from 10-year planning to 5-year planning.  Two is APP projections and how the program has grown.  Three is implementation "5-year planning horizon, in conjunction with annual implementation decisions, allows for mid-course corrections.

Link to all the handouts including amendments.  I caution you that much of it - without explanation - may not make sense.

It appears from my count that amendments 2, 6, 13, 14, 15 are out.  (Again tentative as they are not really announcing "in" or "out" but those were some that were withdrawn or dismissed.)

85 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Melissa. I can't get the link to work, though. E

Anonymous said...

ok, just found the link and this one worked for me:


http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/school%20board/13-14%20agendas/111313agenda/20131113_Agenda_GrowthBoundaries.pdf?sessionid=b88947404738d3a1476662a4683261f3
E

Anonymous said...

Deja vu! They are promising an integrated APP curriculum for all the various new APP sites so everything will work perfectly.

And shocker of all shockers, Wedgwood goes back to Eckstein because it is OK to disrupt everyone else.

Kay is the only one who is talking about students as if they are children. Michael is convinced APP can be cut and pasted so that the entire district can be magically right sized.

- unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

And Michael never seems to miss an opportunity to kick Pinehurst. Why should we pay to move them so that we can close them again later.

-unbelievable

Anonymous said...

" They are promising an integrated APP curriculum for all the various new APP sites so everything will work perfectly."
How old are the School Board members? Do they still believe in fairies also?
LL

Anonymous said...

What is meant by "integrated APP curriculum?"

-curious

Anonymous said...

"We are not willing to listen to you about problems with our plan that might involve actually educating children, because we are super excited about these projection numbers for 2017." That's what it means. There are certainly no dollars to make anything like that happen, and while people on here like to complain about the attention APP gets, it's really only from blog posters and board members once a year when they are using the program numbers to fix capacity. Would be thrilled to give that attention up to any other program, in a heartbeat. Definitely no curriculum or teaching and learning attention (still waiting on that integration from Washington and Hamilton).

Hopeful that the Patu SE amendment goes through, very interested to hear more justification of 80% APP growth. Disappointed about the JAMS gen ed demographics, but hoping it gets a lot of support and enthusiasm from the district. Maybe if these are the settled numbers they can start to talk about offerings? I could see languages being very popular, and hopefully advanced math right from the start.

-sleeper

Anonymous said...

I was able to see the amendments w/that link - thank you.

Boy, APP is a football. Do all of the APP haters see why APP is paranoid? Sometimes they really are out to get you.

I count APP Middle school proposals: 3 sites with a per site cap at two (=kill program integrity), 3 sites with take-everyone method (=capacity fail?), and 2 sites (most at Wilson, maybe ok).

And then there's Peaslee's divide the elem into 3: Thornton Creek, Wilson and Oly Hills (=mess up an option school, crowd neighborhood school, why?) And, no, APP doesn't want to mess w/Thornton Creek or Oly Hills programs - why would Peaslee propose messing up a successful option school by shoving APP down their throats and forcing them to have a smaller program?

When a program is used as a club like this, willy nilly on other schools, it's just ...

well, speechless.
Signed: why?

Anonymous said...

Michael is in fine form. He graciously deferred to Betty to let Betty keep her own amendment for the SE. What is with him? Why is he so determined to bring APP to the NE? Did anyone tell him the NE is full???

-unbelievable

Anonymous said...

I think Michael forgot that he moved the World School from Queen Anne. Because he has to explain to his colleagues that they should not be forgotten. Seriously? Betty is so concerned about her communities.

-unbelievable.

Anonymous said...

Oh, you mean the "aligned" APP curriculum that was promised with the last split - the aligned curriculum that has yet to materialize after what, 3, 4 years?

-fooled once

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

is there a live feed on this?

-uncertain

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Or video recording - guess it's all a done deal. What did they vote on?

-uncertain

Eric B said...

There wouldn't have been a vote tonight. This was all about getting feedback from staff and gauging support from the rest of the board. All votes will happen on November 20.

JvA said...

I think Betty Patu's amendment was supposed to include instruction to start the 2020 plan from scratch. I think she may have told the staff something like "put everything on hold until we engage in authentic outreach to affected communities." And then they may have interpreted that as "all systems go." And then the whole thing discussion ended up being about Dearborn Park alone.

Anonymous said...

Sounds dreadful. So is there *anything* left that we can do to get them to stop, slow down and only do what's essential?

What's driving this false urgency? Is it all because it's DeBell & Smith Blum's last board meetings?

Do we need yet another mass campaign in the next week?

Also: I am sick and tired of Wedgwood's NIMBY attitude. "Wedgwood kids have always gone to Eckstein, therefore we must always go to Eckstein" they said at Sherry Carr's meeting last Saturday. "Wedgwood kids can walk to Eckstein" they said. Well they can equally well walk to JAMS too - their geozone abuts JAMS and the same number of Wedgwood kids live in the JAMS walk zone as in the Eckstein one (more or less).

"Taking Wedgwood kids away from Eckstein deprives them of their opportunity to attend a nationally ranked music program" said one of the parents at Sherry Carr's meeting. And I suppose it doesn't do that for the Oly Hills and John Rogers and Sac and OV kids who will be assigned to JAMS? What an outrageous sense of entitlement!

But I guess they don't want to go to school with poor /non-white kids? In my opinion, Wedgwood ought to think outside of their own little bubble and commit to improving things for many of their neighbors (and - incidentally - themselves). Just think what a force those families could be in helping JAMS get started. Plus it would provide a lot more demographic equity between JAMS & Eckstein that way. Plenty of other schools/families are getting shaken up/feeling hurt in a MUCH bigger way than being assigned to JAMS. Wedgwood should share the burden.

--Unimpressed

JvA said...

My neighborhood is 20% Chinese, and we live 3 blocks from Dearborn Park, all 3 blocks of which are covered by a brand-new sidewalk built with state Safe Routes to School funds. The landmark for our neighborhood is the Chinese Baptist Church, a pillar of the Chinese community here on Beacon Hill.

The district wants to reassign us to Van Asselt, 8 schools and over 2 miles away. Again, we're 3 blocks from Dearborn Park.

The amendment to expand the geozone for Dearborn Park to include Zone 31 (formerly Zone 36) stems from my correspondence with DeBell. It makes sense on every level that if Dearborn Park becomes an option school that our 20% Chinese community 3 blocks away across that Safe Routes to School sidewalk should be in that geozone.

My preference is that we just be allowed to stay at Maple (which we are in the walk zone for). But getting added to the geozone for Dearborn Park would also make sense. Or adding us (the closest part, anyway?) to the attendance zone could also make sense.

We just want something that makes sense. It doesn't even matter what it is.

Susan said...

Looks like option 2 MS APP pathway gives JAMS a bigger cohort to start the program. Also, keeps McClure APP feeding into Hamilton and keeps Laurelhurst gen ed feeding into Eckstein. I'd bet they go with this one.

Melissa Westbrook said...

- no grandfathering talk at all. I think the Board has no say in that issue. (They also should have no say in program placement but that doesn't seem to stop them from meddling with APP/)
- Michael is a man on fire but yes, he certainly is trying to play his own game to win but, at the same time, criticizing others for their efforts.
- no, they don't tape these Work Sessions but frankly, for big ones like this one they should have. (Although it was a little funny to watch Director Peaslee try to get her colleagues to trim their thoughts). Charlie, Kellie, Meg and I were all taking notes so I'll try to get those up soon.
- Yay Betty! So she explained her amendment against changing Dearborn Park. Her main complaint against it was the lack of notification and input from the community. But the other Directors got into this "well, with the geozone, the neighborhood kids CAN go here." Michael also tried to say that the BLT and the principal had worked with Karen Kodama (who oversees International ed). If that is so, how come this is the first we heard of it? Deep suspicions on that one.

But Tracy pointed out that there were NO guarantees for Option schools and that the neighborhood kids would first be assigned to Van Asselt but then would have to enroll in Dearborn Park during Open Enrollment. When you are talking about a large number of immigrant families who may not understand this, that's a problem. Director Peaslee said an explicit letter should be sent out and if they didn't do communication on the change, what makes us believe that they will follow thru on a letter?

So Betty speaks up and say, "Look I made this amendment for a reason. It was not clearly communicated to this school community that the school would change and what that change would mean." So she's sticking to her guns and good for her.

I will also say that - again - there is this paternalism that the change for Dearborn Park will be for the good but somehow those parents didn't need engagement or even advance notification. You try changing a school in the north end like this without any input or notification. It would NOT fly.

Immigrant or English as a second language parents do NOT have fewer rights than other parents. If you would not want this done to your community, then stand up for Dearborn Park and tell the district no.

Lynn said...

The Wedgwood families are going to be so annoyed if their school remains crowded because 200 APP students decide to go to Eckstein instead.

mirmac1 said...

I see Dearborn Park as a last vanity shot for KSB and MDB. Not good enough. LI is a luxury the vast majority of the families in the SE/district can ill-afford. This contrived effort at "equity" just makes inequity for ten times more disadvantaged families.

This district must master the essential elements of equity before creating more islands of privilege.

SB said...

Amen @unimpressed. Wedgewood parents as well as the others that will feed into Eckstein are NIMBY, racist, classist and elitist snobs who don't want their kids going to school with kids whose parents don't make six or seven figure incomes and who aren't white or Asian. Personally I am glad that my kid won't attend school with people who have that attitude

Anonymous said...

I can't help but remember the outcry from QA families when the district announced the new elementary in QA would have a technology focus. As you stated Melissa, it did NOT fly. The neighborhood was in an uproar that they were not consulted. Soon after a survey was circulated. I wish I could remember the exact numbers, but something like 80% of families wanted the new school to be language immersion, and 5% wanted a technology focus. The district sent out a memo with the results, and said "Thanks for your feedback, we are excited to announce QAE will have a technology focus."

They completely ignored the feedback!!!

There is no point in engaging with the Dearborn Park Community, they've already decided it will be an immersion school.

It seems even speaking the language does not make you heard in SPS.

TS

Anonymous said...

Anything on SPED?


reader

Anonymous said...

Has the north end really had communication about this? Or just the ones who read blogs & get emails from PTSA. The FRL & ELL families that I know at Eckstein have no idea that their kids are going to be moved next year. These are fragile kids. They need stability more than other kids need to have the electives available in a comprehensive middle school for 6th grade. There are more than 100 kids at Eckstein who are food insecure or housing insecure. They will be shipped to JAMs next year. Who was advocating for them? Who was communicating to those families?

Current Eckstein staff & parents know these kids & have been deliberate about relationships & support systems.
FRL, ELL & Sped should be grandfathered. Keep them at Eckstein.

It seems like every group was only advocating for their own kids, but willing to sacrifice these kids. Sigh.

-Eckstein Parent

Anonymous said...

Taking Wedgwood kids away from Eckstein deprives them of their opportunity to attend a nationally ranked music program" ... What an outrageous sense of entitlement!


Hear, hear! That attitude is reserved for our APP parents! If they are split into each building, we can all enjoy them.

-reader

Anonymous said...

Actually, "reader", I was just feeling sad that my 7th grade son is going to be sent away from his school and most of his friends at Hamilton next year. He and about 250 other APP kids will be placed at either JAMS or Eckstein, both of which have said they don't want them and seem resentful about our kids taking up space in "their" school. Never mind that these kids would have rather stayed with their friends at Hamilton.
Three years ago, my son was among 450 kids and their families were told on the 2nd day of summer vacation that they would not be able to go back to their school, but would be sent to another building. That building did not even have a playground for more than a few young students, besides the areas they would be using had never been an elementary school and needed lots of work to get ready. In November, the parents were able to install 1! play structure for the kids, however most of the time it couldn't be used because the ground between it and the door was muddy and the kids would be tracking unbelievable amounts of mud into the school.
And you're telling me that I'm feeling entitled because....?
Momof2

Anonymous said...

Would love to see the leader of the "nationally ranked music program" move to JAMS in 2014!

-shakethingsup

Anonymous said...

reader -

that is NOT what I said so please don't twist my words into something poisonous.

I don't get the impression APP feels entitled. Perhaps they feel like they shouldn't be shunted from pillar to post by the district time and time again because that's basically what's happened to them? I'm sure they'd put it a bit more politely than I just did.

But also at that Sherry Carr meeting, enough people said "we don't want those APP kids in OUR school" that Sherry Carr actually called them out on their bigotry at one point. It was shocking and despicable to hear them say that - even though an APP mom stood up and very emotionally said something like "we don't want to be in schools where we're not wanted; we were moved at several weeks' notice to a new location that was unsuitable and in terrible condition, and given no resources - we didn't even have a library or sports equipment - and I don't want any other school communities to have to go through what we went through."

Seems the bigotry and entitlement isn't in APP who are just trying to get their kids an education that works for them, but is elsewhere, and that you just embodied it. (for the record I don't have kids in APP.)

-Still unimpressed

Anonymous said...

Momo2... you can always say no to your perceived entitlement. Cry me a river, as the saying goes.

-reader

Julie said...

Good grief. APP was never anchored by neighborhood so it is theoretically the easiest piece to move around. Though I was never for APP at Ekstein, part of me now wants it there just to piss off the folks who believe "other kids except mine to JAMS". Still, I understand. Its human nature.

I hope to God that they don't split APP elementary as Peaslee suggests (does she ate APP?).

Looking at the schools feeding into JAMS...well, by having APP there, they have taken a chunk of Ekstein neighborhood kids. Still, this looks like lot of ELL and FRL neighborhoods. Ekstein Parent's concern about the ELL, FRL, and Sped population that is going to be moved to JAMS is important. However, the way the whole thing is moving, it doesn't look favorable for that population. If they are moved, is there anyway to coordinate with other parents moving to JAMS to allow some support? If my child was going there next year, I would definitely have consulted the parents involved at Ekstein to what could be done.

Overall, I feel JAMS can be a great school - and it would help to have the district invest some special program/perks/classes into it. You don't need to be rich. A good principal and energized parents can go a long way. Its just that it takes time to build a good program. People need to get going on this and envision something marvelous for this school. screw Ekstein.

Anonymous said...

Geez people.

Wedgwood parents are not NIMBYS they are IMBYS. They want to attend the school in their own back yard. Eckstein is smack dab in the midst of Wedgwood. Or, in version 3, on the north side of 75th – just across the street! If they say some impolitic things at meetings I can imagine it is from the space of being a parent and presuming that other parents would empathize with a desire for what is working for their kid. If members of their community are willing to mobilize and show up at meetings, but slight in politics isn’t it a clue that they are not practiced in tossing other families under or onto a bus?

They have not advocated that any other kid be thrown out. They would like to attend their neighborhood school.

And thanks to you Eckstein Parent - totally agree.

-StepJ

Anonymous said...

Enough of the class warfare, folks. Enough.

Nobody trashed Hawthorne families for wanting to stay on a pathway to Mercer, instead of Aki Kurose, which I support, btw. They praised them.

We've all been taught that a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush, so lay off people upset that the rug laid out in front of them since their children were infants is about to get yanked away. To call anyone "entitled" for not wanting that to happen is gratuitous and hypocritical. What parent anywhere would be happy about that?

A bizarre, tongue-shaped boundary was drawn around WS Elementary after the immigrant community there complained that assigning half the neighborhood to Fairmont Park would split the community. Fine, but in exchange the district switched all the poor and working class families at Sanislo from Denny to Madison, disrupting that community. So who's more "entitled" there? Somali immigrants? Hispanic immigrants? Or poor and working class families of innumerable backgrounds?

Casual, gratuitous class warfare and jealousy only make it easier for the district to justify picking winners and losers by picking good guys and bad guys. Could we have a less legitimate process?

That "other peoples lives suck too" is no excuse and is frankly defeatist, fatalistic and apathetic. Are we seriously now jealous that some people are willing to stand up for themselves, because others can't, don't or won't?

Does it help Betty's chances of getting her amendment passed that so many other areas are complaining about the plan's impacts on them? Or would it be better if they all just shut up and quit complaining? Think about it.

WSDWG

Anonymous said...

To clarify, I support Hawthorne - a school that's done great things in the past 3 years - staying on path to Mercer. WSDWG

Anonymous said...

Thank you WSDWG.

Not my area of town, but appreciate.

-StepJ

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Did any one catch exactly what the Debell amendment means for both middle school feeder patterns in the North?

There are two alternatives listed on the hand out. Was there agreement that Alternative 2 would be put forward?

Thanks,
Eden

Anonymous said...

Mom of 2-

Don't bother feeding Reader.

There are three guarantees in life: death, taxes, and Reader insulting APP parents whenever APP comes up.

-cricket

Anonymous said...

I don't understand all the sturm und drang over JAMS. SPS opened SEVERAL new elementary schools recently as ROLL-UPS! at temporary locations! I do not remember McDonald and Sand Point parents screaming about the comprehensive experience. Were there screams and I just missed it? I just remember McDonald parents forming a group, and then a PTA, and worked extremely hard to get their school started. I remember they had split classes, one class for grades 1-2, one class for grades 3-5!, sharing teachers/classes with QAE, which was also at Lincoln, but had a totally different ed focus, Technology. Why the difference now? NE middle school kids are more fragile than Wallingford and Queen Anne and Sand Point elenentary kids?

Yes, it sucks to be moved to a new school, but there is NO room left at the ECKSTEIN INN. Which part of that do people not understand? NO ROOM! What else can be done except start new schools? It was done before at elementary level, now those kids are headed to MS & need seats. Are we to hear screams again when WP and Lincoln open and SOMEONE has to go there? How is SPS to pick if everyone says "any other kids except MINE!"? Just sayin'

CCA

JAMS rocks! said...

I am excited that my kids will eventually attend JAMS. The principal is supposed to be wonderful. And having APP there is a good thing as they also have a supportive and involved parent base and it will create more variety in class offerings and opportunities for non APP kids to take more challenging classes.

With APP at JAMS I expect the demographics will be similar to Nathan Hale which is also a very popular school. Most of JAMS parents will likely be middle to upper middle income as is representative of the northern section of NE Seattle and APP families and there will also be low income families and students of color from this area which is great as it will create a diverse and wonderful school which is great for us and our kids.

I remember when APP was moved to Hamilton. before that move a lot of parents didn't want to send their kids there, then suddenly it became a very popular and thriving school with a wait list to get in. The same thing will happen with JAMS and Eckstein will be left in the dust

Anonymous said...

APP community deserves the same predictability that all students have in the district.

Also I will support any parent who wants their kid to go to the school across the street.


Very Brave Anonymous Message Board Poster

Charlie Mas said...

I asked Director DeBell about the Board overriding the superintendent's program placement decisions - an authority granted to him by policy. Director DeBell told me that the Board had taken back the authority to make program placement decisions for APP, International Education, and Montessori as capacity management tools.

This means that the program placement policies do not apply to these programs. Their number, location, and size are subject to the political whims of the Board rather than any fixed policy guidelines.

He said that this was all determined and disclosed about three years ago when they started the capacity management work. He seemed to think that it was all disclosed and above-board.

I'll see if I can find the Board vote he is referencing.

Central said...

Did I miss it, or did no one propose an amendment to keep south-end APP together for now? Is this somehow covered in Patu's S/SE amendment and Smith-Blum's middle-school amendment, or did this no-brainer just get lost in the shuffle?

Central

PS I don't think we need to call each other racist for wanting stability for kids. Every parent wants that. If anyone is the villain here, it is the District planners who create overcrowding and then pit parents against one another to fight over the scraps.

Melissa Westbrook said...

"..the folks who believe "other kids except mine to JAMS".

"...so lay off people upset that the rug laid out in front of them since their children were infants is about to get yanked away."

Okay, so two things, one of which has been thoughtfully said by many.

One, the process has pitted parents against parents which is not good. It is a natural thing to want to advocate for your child.

But two, change happens. And that change can come between the time your child is an infant and the time they go to elementary, middle or high school. It's not your fault, it's not the district's fault - it's life. The best laid plans and all that.

Teaching your child to be resilient when things don't play out as you thought is a good thing.

Lynn said...

JAMS rocks!

I admire your attitude. Can you tell me how placing APP there will create opportunities for non APP kids to take more challenging classes?

Anonymous said...

I agree that a lot of the Wedgewood complaints sound like "do it to the other kid", but, in V3 of the plan, there are a group of houses that literally abut Eckstein MS, across the street from it, that are not included in the school that they can not only walk to but see every day out their front windows. I can understand the degree of frustration I would feel if I were in one of those houses.

But, my solution would be to change those boundaries by a block or so, so that no house that is in eyesight of the school be sent to another school.

zb

Anonymous said...

@zb

Two words. Distance Tiebreaker.

- North-end Mom

Anonymous said...

@CCA: roll ups are different at elementary vs middle school. In elementary all kids are in one 'home room', maybe with walk to math. At the middle school level they have different classes/periods and to have a full range there needs to be more students. This is also the time when kids start to participate in clubs, sports, band, and orchestra. Multiple grade levels are needed to support these activities.

that's why there is a big problem with middle school roll-ups

-uncertain

Anonymous said...

The amendment from DeBell and HMM regarding APP placement includes:

"Notify families before open enrollment each year if any elementary schools will be re-aggregated to feed into a different APP pathway."

Every. Single. Year.

-wary

Julie said...

"Notify families before open enrollment each year if any elementary schools will be re-aggregated to feed into a different APP pathway."

What were they going to do before? Notify the parents 4 weeks before school starts like they did at Lowell?

JAMS rocks! said...

Lynn

Take a look at the other schools with APP students and what they offer

Anonymous said...

"Notify families before open enrollment each year if any elementary schools will be re-aggregated to feed into a different APP pathway."

I suppose they are just codifying the yearly uncertainty that APP has endured since the first split. And let's be fair - the Lowell to Lincoln move was about moving a program intact (minus library books, playground, etc., which was a huge undertaking, but everyone moved together). The proposed amendments relating to APP assignments are about splits that will change year to year. Will existing students be grandfathered at a given site? Are you willing to accept the potential splits of siblings? There's just an arbitrariness to it.

signed, thinking ahead

Lynn said...

JAMS,

Self contained APP English, Social Studies and Science. That's what APP brings to a school. Advanced math is offered at every middle school - APP or not.

Every middle school offers a foreign language or two, art, music and PE.

JAMS is not going to be a better school for general education and Spectrum students if APP students are in the building.

ben said...

@Lynn, APP families do add something to the entire Middle School. For one thing, they are active in the PTSA and volunteer. They add to the extra curricular mix and increase the population for electives like Music.
They can potentially change the demographic mix as occurs at Washington Middle School. I also think (someone can correct me if I'm off) the divisions in the claases like Math become more fluid as well.

Ben

Anonymous said...

@ Wary (and all)

I understood it that this "aggregation by elementary school" piece in the APP amendment by Debell was pulled. But I'm asking for clarification.

What is more concerning to me is the TWO alternative feeder patterns and APP pathways for middle school in the amendment, and I don't understand which is going forward, or if both will be put forth and it will be for the board to decide in 2015 or 2016 what happens.

Again, I'm back to logic and running the numbers, and this doesn't make sense.

Alternative 1 puts Laurelhurst at HIMS and the APP pathways for all of the Whitman, WP and McClure areas at WP.

Alternative 2 puts Laurelhurst at Eckstein and McClure area APP kids at Hamilton (WP and Whitman in WP pathway).

The middle school feeder pattern is basically the same in the two alternatives, and it:

Makes Wilson Pacific full with AA kids in 2017. NO room for APP at all.

JAMS is potentially under enrolled if targeting only 270 APP kids and only pulling in John Rogers, Olympic Hills and Sacajawea.

Eckstein is still over enrolled.

I don't think this works from a capacity perspective.

Eden

Anonymous said...

What's the betting they put OV into JAMS? I think a lot of OV/Maple Leaf parents would welcome that rather than being assigned to WP.

-Maple Leaf Mama

nacmom said...

Very Brave Anonymous Message Board Poster says:

"APP community deserves the same predictability that all students have in the district.

Also I will support any parent who wants their kid to go to the school across the street."

Bless it.

1) Capping enrollment = no predictable assignment.
Only for neighborhood APP? Do we ALL get predictable assignments(as is the guiding principle for NSAP), or not?

2) Distance tiebreaker = no predictable assignment
and, frankly, the return to choice plan era "circles of inclusion/exclusion' around schools.

3) Annual review/notification to APP programs = no predictable assignment.

4) Grandfathering siblings at one school only? Either for all or none. If one gets it, the pressures will begin and then all lines will need to be redrawn to accommodate siblings (I contend they should have in the first place, but all or none people.)

Board/district need to refer back to what the NSAP was trying to accomplish:

Predictable assignments and fair and equitable processes for ALL students/families.

Anonymous said...

To Thinking ahead:
"the Lowell to Lincoln move was about moving a program intact (minus library books, playground, etc., which was a huge undertaking, but everyone moved together)."

If you mean by "intact" that with this move we have lost only a "few" students (like my student best friends), the ones who lived on Capitol Hill and decided to continue at TGM and also we only lost a "few" experienced APP teachers, then i would agree.
Otherwise I have to tell you that with every APP move, split, we WILL lose some part of our community. The only question is what part? And in this already fragile program it is a huge price we have to pay for ... what really?
- Questions

Lynn said...

Maple Leaf Mama,

With NE APP at JAMS, there won't be room for Olympic View. The school will be full by 2017-18 without OV. There will be 230 empty seats at WP that year.

If OV wants to go to JAMS instead of WP, they'll need to trade places with NE APP.

Anonymous said...

With all due respect, "change happens" is a little JSCEE sounding, isn't it? Especially since it's exactly the same verbiage used by staff during the '08 closures. And let's not forget that "kids are resilient!" - MGJ

People aren't completely selfish and stupid. They understand that more kids in the city - a very good thing - means populations outgrowing schools and kids having to be re-assigned from time to time.

But that doesn't mean it's easy, fair, or unemotional. Community is extremely highly valued in this city, and severing communities causes extreme pain and sadness. We should recognize that people not wanting to leave a school says a lot of good things about those people and that school.

I'm not picking sides in the debate. I am suggesting that people have empathy and knock off the gratuitous slams against others. There's a great opportunity here for people to reach out and help each other through a difficult transition among people who really deeply care about kids and schools. Again, a very good thing. (God Forbid!)

Are we going to embrace each other, respond to concerns and help each other out, or act like a bunch of snide jerks?

We got pushed out of a building, friendships got severed, kids lost friends, and lives got severely disrupted for a few years. It sucked, and even though the kids bounced back (What choice do they have?), it was never as good as it was before.

People aren't widgets. It's too easy for unaffected people, or those who might benefit to tell others to just "suck it up." For some reason, the underlying competitiveness between all people rears its ugly head in situations like this and it brings out their worst anti-social qualities.

Whether my kids are affected or not, I honestly cannot tell at this point, but I can feel for those folks on both sides of the issue, because they are caring, concerned parents who just want what's best for their kids.

WSDWG

Anonymous said...

Uncertain,

There will always be reasons why it is not okay for MY kids, but okay for SOMEONE ELSE'S kids; witness how many people think it'd be perfectly fine for the Indian Heritage kids and the Sped kids and the ELL kids to be moved.

Are high school kids also fragile and have needs for all the bells and whistles of an well established school? Who will go to Lincoln High when it reopen? Are there enough Sped, FRL & ELL kids to fill Lincoln, so the others can have Roosevelt, Ballard & Garfield with their nationally ranked Jazz bands & Film program & Latin and Marine Bio classes?

Someone has to go to the new school. Who do you think it should be? Other than NOT MINE, that is.

CCA

Anonymous said...

"And having APP there is a good thing as they also have a supportive and involved parent base and it will create more variety in class offerings and opportunities for non APP kids to take more challenging classes."

"For one thing, they are active in the PTSA and volunteer. They add to the extra curricular mix and increase the population for electives like Music."

On one hand, all APP hears is that we are not wanted at JAMS, Eckstein, or elsewhere. That fact was made very clear at Sherry Carr's meeting last weekend. That feels great. On the other hand, we look sort of attractive because our parents are so "active and organized." Because APP kids are in self-contained classes in the building, they will not create a wider variety of challenging course offerings for others. This hasn't happened at Hamilton. Every middle school student in Seattle can place into any math class, APP students in the building or not. We do not bring foreign language, an International School approach from Hamilton, PE, art, music, or anything. More students will increase a school's population and that's how schools get more extra-curricular activities, course offerings, etc. If the Wedgewood families were drawn into JAMS, they would bring the same thing as APP would. More bodies bring more stuff.

We all just want our kids to get a stable, good quality education. I would imagine that all APP and non-APP families want at JAMS is a welcoming school where we can all get to know each other, have a safe, quality learning environment for our kids, and a place where we can all come together to equally make JAMS a great middle school. I'm hopeful that all of the families who will be assigned to JAMS will be able to come together after Nov. 20th and make something of this.

Hopeful for JAMS

Anonymous said...

'This district must master the essential elements of equity before creating more islands of privilege.' - Mirmac1

Absolutely agree. This leads me to ask: why is the board making program decisions that aren't for them to make? Does their involvement in programming come as a result of this continuing divide in equity? In other words, are board members involved because the Superintendent and staff aren't doing what they need to do to make offerings equitable?

I think LI is important, but taking a neighborhood school and making it an option school is stupid if it's hurts more kids than it helps. LI takes a lot of resources. If McDonald is any indication, SPS doesn't have the money to fund LI schools without short changing other cohorts, in the same way they've mismanaged their money to the point that they're pitting APP and Sped kids against everyone else. And a final question: isn't pitting one cohort against other illegal?

Back to LI. Relying on parents to raise money leads to a continuation of privilege over equity, but DeBell is all for this, without finding other funding sources that don't involve parents with money? Sorry, after the damage he's done, he doesn't get to leave with a clean legacy.

In other countries, the state supports LI beginning in pre-K. LI isn't just for families of means or families who find their address to be a happy accident. What will it take to bring in funding for LI so we're offering this to ANY kid that wants this kind of education, a really cutting edge education that can easily be paired with ELL cohorts? This - should - make LI a model with broad appeal, but you can't play this Option crap anymore, because the plan was no more choice. Every school a great school. Really. To force out neighborhood kids if LI isn't what they need or want is total crap. I would therefore put the brakes on further expansion of LI until we get the basics right. FTR Dearborn Park is in our geozone, but my kids have aged out. Still, I'm very glad we have Patu. Banda needs to listen to her.

Westside

Melissa Westbrook said...

This leads me to ask: why is the board making program decisions that aren't for them to make? Does their involvement in programming come as a result of this continuing divide in equity? In other words, are board members involved because the Superintendent and staff aren't doing what they need to do to make offerings equitable?

Westside, brilliantly said. That may be exactly why the Board does this stuff - they don't see it happening fast enough? That the Board has asked and asked for the Equitable Access Framework in order to help facilitate understanding of program placement and we STILL don't have it speaks volumes.

Anonymous said...

DeBell's been on the LI kick as far back as I can remember. It's his personal fetish, I swear. Whether or not people want it, he wants them to have it and believes they need it. Paternalism 101.

WSDWG

Lynn said...

CCA,

As there are no longer any children assigned to an Indian Heritage school, you can stop worrying about how everyone plans to mistreat them. The administrative office at Lincoln is likely not taking up much room. If that space is needed for classrooms, of course the adults working there should be moved.

Eckstein parents are concerned about their ELL/Special Ed/FRL population being sent to JAMS. I think you can relax about that issue too.

If I remember correctly, your child will be able to stay at Hamilton. My guess is that means your neighborhood will be assigned to Lincoln for high school.

Were your kids a part of the group that moved to Lincoln from Lowell? Or did they attend McDonald when it was reopening? If you'd like people to calm down, maybe sharing how one of those changes really wasn't too bad would be helpful.

Anonymous said...

Lynn says: "As there are no longer any children assigned to an Indian Heritage school, you can stop worrying about.....them". So if SPS dissolves APP and Nova, we can then stop worrying about those kids, yes? No more angst about Mann, HIMS, Eckstein or JAMS. LOVELY! Let's us all write to the Board and Tracy Libros, they need to dissolve APP and Nova forthwith! Too bad we can't do the same to those FRL & ELL kids, poor people gonna be poor, yo.

CCA

Lynn said...

CCA,

Please calm down and stop SHOUTING. You have been ALL FIRED UP about the heartless, thoughtless, selfish people who are trying to evict the Indian Heritage program from Lincoln. I was not sure you were aware there are no students in this program at Lincoln.

It certainly seems that some of the directors want to restart the program. As it will be a new program, it does not necessarily need to be at Lincoln. Do you understand that?

If your children are not being moved from their school next year, it is unkind of you to be mocking other people for their reactions to a problem you have managed to escape. Count your blessings.

seattle citizen said...

"There are no [Indian Heritage] students in this program at Lincoln."
Does anyone wonder where these students went?
Are they "rubbed out," erased already?

Where are the Indian Heritage students - past, present, and future?

Does anyone know?

Does anyone care?

Anonymous said...

'Director DeBell told me that the Board had taken back the authority to make program placement decisions for APP, International Education, and Montessori as capacity management tools.' - Charlie

OK. I didn't see this when I asked 'Why' further down thread. Are Regional Directors irrelevant? Do affected parties bypass their directors and lobby the board?

Westside

Anonymous said...

Sorry, up thread, not down.

Westside

Julie said...

From what I have read in previous threads, the Native Indian Heritage program used to be at Wilson Pacific and will be moved to Northgate Mall somewhere by the school district. There was an article on it on KUOW. Please correct me if I am wrong. Nobody is kicking them out of Lincoln building - as far as I can tell, they just have an office there.

Anonymous said...

Lynn,

Sigh, you don't get it. What I find disturbing is that the people who have more time and money, and thus more influence on SPS, advocating for moving groups of kids around, putting them here, there, wherever, so they can have the absolute best for their own. And the groups they are moving around willy nilly to whatever nook and cranny, are groups that are historically treated this way. Do you not see the parallel between making these kids invisible now and the long and shameful record our country has had in killing their cultures and getting them out of sight? No? I'm the only one bothered by it?

I had hoped we were better than people who came before us. What are we teaching our children? Justice and compassion do not matter? What kind of world do we hope for our children's future? Everyone for themselves only? Everyone is their own island?

The capitalization is used for emphasis, not shouting. I am sad, not angry. I worry about the world my children will inherit. Look at the GOP and all the ugliness they spout, if we teach our children to always put themselves first, how much worse will it get? What are we modelling for our kids?

CCA

seattle citizen said...

Julie, "used to be at WP...will be moved..."
Where are they NOW?
True, Native American students are less than 2% of the district (coicidentally, about the same number as APP...) but evidentally there is little voice for them. Yes, Director Peaslee, bless her, is looking for discussion and leverage, but over the years the district's attention towards our Indian children has waned.
Who among us is standing for them?

Carol Simmons said...

Dear CCA,
Thank you.
It is not only perfectly acceptable to "shout" in anger, it is also necessary. There are many voices that will join you and will continue to "shout" and translate these written and verbal shouts into action to fight social and educational injustice.

Lynne, the Indian Heritage Program must be revitalized and the placement of this program depends upon many things among them the District's efforts and commitment to actually revitalize it. Financial and human resources must be provided. The District let the Program/School fail and the District is responsible to make it succeed. Whether it is combined with AS1(Pinehurst)or stands alone at Lincoln or placed at John Marshall will hopefully be determined soon. Whether it will be a pathway program housed at Ingraham High School is also being considered. Whatever happens this Program must be restored and returned eventually to the Licton Springs (Wilson Pacific) site with the buildings on this site named after Former Native American Principal and Community Leader, Robert Eaglestaff. In all of the Growth Boundry Discussions, the Placement of the Indian Heritage program should take priority and once it is revitalized, resources must be provided to insure that it thrives.

Carol Simmons said...

Dear CCA,
Thank you.
It is not only perfectly acceptable to "shout" in anger, it is also necessary. There are many voices that will join you and will continue to "shout" and translate these written and verbal shouts into action to fight social and educational injustice.

Lynne, the Indian Heritage Program must be revitalized and the placement of this program depends upon many things among them the District's efforts and commitment to actually revitalize it. Financial and human resources must be provided. The District let the Program/School fail and the District is responsible to make it succeed. Whether it is combined with AS1(Pinehurst)or stands alone at Lincoln or placed at John Marshall will hopefully be determined soon. Whether it will be a pathway program housed at Ingraham High School is also being considered. Whatever happens this Program must be restored and returned eventually to the Licton Springs (Wilson Pacific) site with the buildings on this site named after Former Native American Principal and Community Leader, Robert Eaglestaff. In all of the Growth Boundry Discussions, the Placement of the Indian Heritage program should take priority and once it is revitalized, resources must be provided to insure that it thrives.

Anonymous said...

According to the OSPI 2012-13 District Summary, 1.0% (around 500 students) identify as American Indian/Alaska Native.

a reader

Julie said...

Seattle Citizen,

I think they may still be at WP. Interesting though, if you are so concerned about them, you can try looking it up yourself and see what can be done.

And as for other people not caring, actually I am sure there are those who care you don't know about . I've already written several letters to the superintendent and the board asking to save the program and do right by them. It's a start.

Melissa Westbrook said...

Director DeBell told me that the Board had taken back the authority to make program placement decisions for APP, International Education, and Montessori as capacity management tools.' - Charlie

When did he say that? Because I never heard this stated publicly and it seems like a major issue that would have been publicly stated.

Lynn said...

Carole Simmonse,

I am not against re-starting an Indian Heritage School. If we can create a place where students will be happier, more engaged and more successful I'm all for it. I don't know where you got the idea I wasn't. I pointed out the fact that there is currently no school - I didn't celebrate it.

seattle citizen said...

Julie, I did try looking them up but couldn't. I'd thought they were with Middle College, but there is only an old, archived page on district site. It is declared archive only. Middle College site says they have five programs, but only four are listed/linked. One of the four is MC Northgate, which I think is where IH was sent packing to, but no mention of IH there.
I suspect that there are no more students and the office at Lincoln is the only remnant.
The students have dissappeared.
I know some people DO care. I am just so sad about this situation. I see so much discussion here, which is good and does influence the district as people talk to each other....just not a lot about IH....or Pinehurst, for that matter.I hope we can all stand in support of the (numerically) weakest among us.
Thank you for trying to help the IH program. There is a good possibility that the program will re-emerge.
Evidently, there is a rally in support of it at JSCEE at 4:00 next Wednesday, before the board meeting...

Anonymous said...

Paul pretty much nailed it.

--enough already

seattle citizen said...

Enough - who the heck is Paul?