Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Pinehurst: Final Notes - Pinehurst Saved

Director Patu came out like a lioness, saying that the district tends to start programs and then, if they drag, stop supporting them.  She also said that no, she did not believe these kids could be served elsewhere.
Peaslee said the commitment is there.  They will take anything to continue on as a program (AS #1) and Indian Heritage, like WS, has been tossed around.  Both know it will take work.
Carr - So I would like to respond to Director Patu's comment about not working to help grow the school.  We've had this conversation before when I was on the CAICEE committee and that was back in the '90s.  She believes staff HAS tried.  I've tried to listen to both groups and both are showing a willingness to work hard and I'm willing to take a chance on it.  But I will be watching it closely.
Smith-Blum - if there's a pathway forward, I know staff can help find it.

Martin-Morris and DeBell - no
Rest - yes

Pinehurst is saved (to live another day).  

So they will move to Lincoln for two years and then (somehow) Wilson-Pacific after that.

DeBell asked that APP @ Lincoln be considered given it was not "fair" to do this out of nowhere.


Anonymous said...

The board spends an hour wrestling with the huge problem of Pinehurst and Native American school. All board members speaking with authority from their perspectives.

Except Martin-Morris. Not a word. Just a sulk in the corner. I don't care which side of this argument people are on - we should expect some leadership from the director in the heart of this mess.

Complete. Waste. of. Leadership.

Furious Viewer

Hippy Goodwife said...

HMM has never appeared to be interested in what actually happens in his part of town. He need to go.

Julie said...

I cheered out loud. Yay!

mirmac1 said...

You go! Betty and Sharon! And I'm seeing some independence in Sherry's positions.

Whatever works to benefit students and families with few advocates!

Anonymous said...
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kgroth said...

I'm very excited that the Seattle School Board voted tonight to save Pinehurst K-8! I feel validated for all the time I spent last school year campaigning to save the school that my daughter attended last year. I'm thankful for the parents who took on the campaign with gusto, especially John Chapman, after I had to move on for personal family matters.

I think merging Pinehurst/AS1 with the Native American program is an innovative idea with great support from both schools and the general public. Awesome turnout from them at tonight's Board meeting. I'm sad that Staff, DeBell, and HMM were so against the idea and it took 5 members on the Board to make the Staff do their job and find a home for AS1/Indian Heritage. I reached out to them individually and they never supported keeping Pinehurst.

We reached out to many schools and programs and it says a lot for the Indian Heritage program that they were the only one who welcomed the idea of merging with AS1. Sadly the APP program at Lincoln is not receptive to sharing space in the interim at Lincoln though I am confident that will be worked out.

Thank you Melissa for publicizing Pinehurst on your blog so that others are aware of the program that serves the unique needs of kids who thrive in the alternative model.

Mary Griffin said...

I'm not sure that if you weren't at the meeting you wouldn't get the energy in the audience behind the speakers for Pinehurst and Native American programs. I think this is a great way to move forward and I was so glad to see so much energy around it.

Anonymous said...

To be fair to APP (and I don't have any kids at APP), their concerns have consistently been lack of core space/facilities. The playground, the cafeteria, the other shared spaces. I think they'd have those concerns whoever they shared with?


Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Exactly flibbertigibet. In addition, we had about the same number or less when sharing with McDonald and believe me, they were not welcoming at all. APP will not do that but the challenges will be there and that should be recognized. In addition, there was no involvement with APP prior to this amendment being brought forth, unlike at least the appearance of engagement with Tc and JAk8.

I haven't heard though whether this is what Pinehurrat wants.


Anonymous said...

APP would have the concerns about space when sharing the core spaces with anyone. The thing was, Hamilton WAS NOT GOING TO USE THE CORE. They were only going to come and go for part of the day for classes, middle school doesn't have recess, and they weren't going to use the Lincoln cafeteria at all.

Don't know how 150 or more kids are going to join 600 - I believe the bathrooms will work, but not the outside space (there is ALMOST NONE) and not the lunchroom.

Frankly, Pinehurst should have been put in the funky cute historic space at Cedar Park historic building.

And I am SO TIRED OF HEARING DEBELL TALKING. Yeah, we get it, it's your last meeting. And you want to say nice things to everyone.

Signed: whatever

Anonymous said...

Clearly, I'm in the minority here but I'm dumbfounded that the Board would support putting Pinehurst at Lincoln after having introduced this idea YESTERDAY and with no outreach to Lincoln staff or the community. How on earth are they going to make the cafeteria and the playground work (which are already overstuffed)? You can't just assume that because McDonald was there 2 years ago, it will work. APP has grown since then - and I think Pinehurst is bigger than McDonald was at the time.

Apparently since APP is only a program it deserves no outreach or consideration by Peaslee and her fellow board members. I don't think Peaslee has ever even been to Lincoln.

The logistics of this are going to be very difficult.

Lincoln mom

Anonymous said...

I don't get one thing: There is space in the South and there is no space at North (of the Ship Canal). So then why are they moving kids from the South to the North?
Doesn't make sense

Anonymous said...

The APP program was at least 100 kids smaller when they coshared w/McDonald.

Pinehurst should look at the Nordic Heritage museum building for a permanent site. It goes back to district in 2016 when the museum moves out (I think that's on schedule).

And it can't be used as attendance area school b/c lot is too small for an addition (the playground is owned by city park, apparently, not SPS).

So it's a space. Might be big enough. Nicer than Decatur buildings.

Signed: tired

Anonymous said...

Don't know what kids you're talking about move from South to North - the only kids right now are APP kids from Queen Anne and Magnolia who move north. As it stands, Thurgood Marshall and Washington are quite crowded, and that's where those kids would go.

North exports far more than that to the south: Garfield APP kids from all over north, NOVA/World School kids, some TOPS kids. Some Wallingford/Fremont kids go to Queen Anne Elem. b/c it's an option school they got into when it opened.

Signed: In north

name said...

Omg, APP parents you really cannot see beyond your item small interest can you? A group of students who don't fit in anywhere else but together should make sense to you. Could you share the burden for a year our two? Just think if it was your kid being told to go back to their old school. Two years of a crowded lunch room and playground doesn't seem like so much to ask

Anonymous said...

I agree that the district should have engaged SNAPP BLT. Does the amendment specify the location, or just "location TBD"? I'm not clear on that point (and haven't been watching the live streaming).


Anonymous said...

Name: I don't think you get the constraints of the Lincoln building. I'm glad to see an attempted save for Pinehurst and Indian Heritage, but I don't see how Lincoln makes sense.

kgroth said...

I believe the amendment is for Lincoln or a suitable alternative. The vote really should be to save the worthy Pinehurst/AS1 - Indian Heritage programs and then the District Staff finds a location. Until now District Staff have been very resistant to any idea thrown out to save Pinehurst. Then they offer that same idea (such as Cedar Park) for a different school. I am glad that the Board showed strong support for the smaller voices who became a loud voice tonight. Last year when I spoke up for Pinehurst there were only a few of us parents and I'm glad to see it became a much stronger movement this year.

Anonymous said...

kgroth & name ... please don't assume SNAPP parents are of a single mind on this or that discussion of the practical challenges or lack of consultation means we won't be welcoming.


Anonymous said...

Name - have you ever been to Lincoln at lunch time or recess? It is already beyond crowded. I honestly don't know how they are going to cram in another 150+ kids. Unless they start serving lunch at say 9:30 am. The playground is tiny because of course Lincoln was built to serve high school kids - and the District isn't willing to improve it because of course we are only there "temporarily" - nevermind the fact it's the only elementary school my kid will know.

My main point is that since this bright idea was hatched YESTERDAY and the board didn't talk to any staff, they have no idea if the logistics will work.

They did have time to vet the JA k-8 and Thornton Creek co-housing ideas and decide those wouldn't work. But why should APP get the same consideration? Heck - we got a full day's notice of this proposal.

Lincoln mom.

Jet City mom said...

Lincoln is a huge building, in its heyday, 2,800 students went there.
I attended an elementary school in Bridle Trails without a gym OR a cafeteria, it was years before the district could afford to build them.
Its not bad to think out of the box, but I can see for some it is very threatening.
Shouldn't we be thinking about how to make it work, instead of putting up a wall of reasons why it cant?

Julie said...

I've been watching the live streaming and it looks like for now Pinehurst is going to Lincoln. However, comments were made asking if the district can also look at other options such as Meany and somehow make it work. They left it to the district to make it work.

Of course, another consequence of this is that the APP Hamilton has no cushion to fall back on, impacting 8th graders who have been sent to 10 different schools during their entire school career. There are real casualties, and APP cannot be blamed if they aren't gung-ho on this idea. They weren't consulted - especially when it directly impacts their running of the program.

Anonymous said...

Lincoln was crowded two years ago. It is past crowded at lunch and recess now. The building is fairly large, but the core stuff is not - it's way smaller than comparatively sized elem. schools b/c high schoolers didn't use those facilities. It takes extremely creative staff to make it work.

For instance, grades 1-3 gather in back concrete area in morning, grade 4 in the front of school and grade 5 in the gym. Neither of the two areas (back concrete and front) are big enough to hold all 600 kids.

The cafeteria already runs three full lunches with tables in the halls too. Kids can't buy lunch b/c the lines are too long to have time to eat. They might be able to knock out a wall to put more tables in, but they can't actually SERVE them lunch.

Signed: tired

Anonymous said...

I have yet to see one comment that says we don't support Pinehurst or that we won't be welcoming. The process and the real challenge of how to make it work is the issue folks! Some people just like to assume the worst instead of actually being constructive. Sheesh! APP has all been about making Lincoln work and since this decision has been made, you can bet that APP will make this work because that is what we have done and will do. The parent community has been amazing at trying to make Lincoln work and we have no choice but to continue to do so. I hope Pinehurst will be up for the challenge to figure this out together.


kellie said...

@ Jet City Mom,

Those numbers for Lincoln include when it used the now Wallingford Center as part of its campus. The capacity is no where near that now.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

For goodness sake give APP@Lincoln some time! JA K8 and ThorntonCreek both had the opportunity to consider co-housing with Pinehurst and both declined. This proposal came up In the 24 hours - no one at Lincoln was consulted. It truely could be a logistical nightmare, or maybe it will be fine. What disgusts me is that the directors saw fit to discuss these possibilities with some communities but not others. How would your neighborhood elementary school community feel if a 150 Kid k-8 program was plonked in with them?

APP families will welcome them, but this process stinks!


Julie said...

I second 'Welcome'.

Anonymous said...

I just want to say this to Pinehurst:

You'll be welcomed at Lincoln, certainly more than APP has ever been welcomed anywhere - that's for sure.

However, don't stop your advocacy. You can't rest. You still need a permanent location (as do we).

And you must, please, must keep the screws on the district to get mitigation money for the building/core.

Lincoln MUST have more lunch staff and faster serving capability. Locating more tables alone is not the solution - the cafeteria can't actually feed all the kids.

The building also must have more play/sports stuff and people. There's a nice climbing wall in one of the underground gyms we're not allowed to use. Now work to get access to that gym opened up, so that it can become additional recess space so that your school and ours can rotate through the spaces for recess. We truly barely fit in the current recess spaces (many parents would say we don't fit).

Your students are probably not going to be happy at recess with 150 - 200 other kids, are they? We have to get more spaces open and upgraded despite the location being temporary. Help with that, please.

Work for money for more playground supervisors so we can open some of the upstairs gym spaces and parking lot for ball during recess - we need adults who can supervise those areas, or we can't open them. If you're going to be at recess with APP - and given that APP has recesses filling the whole day b/c there are SO MANY kids - there is no "empty" time -- you have to keep agitating for extra remediation to make recess happen.

Or, you can ditch us (our feelings won't be hurt - again, we've been ditched before!) - and agitate for Cedar Park or Daybreak Star rental for two years or something else. But no matter what, it's not done.

Good luck!
Signed: tired

Anonymous said...

I've got no problem with Pinehurst and understand that community wants to save it's school.
What I do not understand is how, after vetting various alternatives - they suddenly pull Lincoln out at the 11th hour without any engagement of the the large community currently there, and from what I can see minimal or no engagement with the Lincoln administration/BLT. The lack of time and opportunity to gather information and feedback is appalling! Has anyone done a walk through to see where exactly Pinehurst will go? The stated capacity does not reflect the actual usable (i,e, accessible, safe, non-derelict) spaces in the building. Has anyone checked out the cafeteria/staggered lunch process, and staggered recess process and figured out how this is going to work with another school as well? Thought about how to stagger start times and transportation to avoid complete mayhem? Considered the loss of the potential space for HIMS overflow - annex. One of the reasons the use of Lincoln as an annex for HIMS APP reasons was slated was because of lack of room, too costly to repair the spaces etc - so why is it now suddenly OK for Pinehurst?
Just because we managed to colocate with MacDonald does not mean it was easy - it was challenging and MacDonald was smaller. APP has grown since then. I suppose everyone will just have to pull together to try to make it work for everyone as best it can.

This District Sucks

Jet City mom said...

Interlake I believe closed as an elementary school in 1971, when Lincoln had 2,800 students was a decade earlier.

kgroth said...

I have been following the campaign to save Pinehurst with interest though I am not intimately involved with it anymore, I just know some of the parents who are. So I am speaking for myself and not the school.

Director Sharon Peaslee proposed an amendment on Nov. 13th to have Pinehurst as interim at Lincoln. That is unfortunate that according to the APP community, they were not informed until yesterday or did not see the amendments until now. Sadly in our experience that happens often. Over a year ago we received a memo from Banda that Pinehurst was being booted out and torn down for a new school for Jane Addams K-8. It blindsided both our schools since there was no engagement with either of us on that decision.

I am glad to hear that the APP community is willing to work with the AS1/Indian Heritage program to make co-locating at Lincoln work if that is where Staff decides to place the interim program. At tonight's Board meeting we learned of work that will be done to add basic amenities at Lincoln. We reached out to numerous communities and not one was open to co-locating with us, even if we were willing to be creative and solely use portables.

The reality with overcapacity there is no optimal location for AS1 though that's not enough of a reason to close a 40 year program that supports kids who thrive in their alternative model. Also it would rebuild the Indian Heritage program that has been neglected by the District.

I am confident that the Pinehurst community will be up to the challenge to make co-locating work at Lincoln.

kelstar said...

Who are the people with the signs? 10:50 pm talking about Interim Capacity Planning

Anonymous said...

@Welcome and -2boysclub,
Pinehurst is rather surprised by the new idea (which, as far as I know, wasn't brought up before yesterday), but the community is thankful for your welcoming words, and will do its best to fit in with minimal upheaval to the extent it's within their control.
SPS is not known for being very inclusive in its communication with everyone affected, and I'm probably not the only one that is sorry that it's come a surprise to the Lincoln community.

This whole thing has *stunk* (as it has every time they've threatened PK8/AS1) but of all the closure threats I've been through (4), Peaslee has been the BEST director we've ever had. Really appreciative of her commitment, and for Patu's support. I give a big ol' side-eye to Carr, but she gets a pass.

And I give a special, public FU to HHM. Unbeleeevable. Can't wait for our chance to vote him out, he's been such a huge disappointment.

~PK8 parent

Anonymous said...

Oops, I was clearly out of the loop, as kgroth says Pinehurst learned of the Lincoln proposal earlier than yesterday. Guess I should read *all* my email!

~PK8 Parent

Anonymous said...

This decision to put Pinehurst in Lincoln at the 11th hour, without consulting the Lincoln community is but just one example of the ineptitude of this board and this entire process.


Anonymous said...

Also can't wait for election time--I will remember Harium Martin-Morris's lack of dedication to his north district. Sherry Carr is a wet noodle, and clearly did not listen or represent her people well.

Michael DeBell, you made a wise choice to retire. You stink.


Anonymous said...

Other than the families and teachers in the APP program, what has the district ever done to support the program? They have not even supported APP to the level that every othe
r school gets. Why should anyone stay?

- Tired


Anonymous said...

Pk8 Parent -

I sure hope Peaslee sticks by you to make the transition to Lincoln easier for you because she seems to do every thing she can to destabilize APP. Maybe you all will have better luck getting the building capable of housing us all.


ben said...

I'll just second the point that the amendment to move Pinehurst to Lincoln is no more 11th hour than any of the other ones.

For the record:
Look at: Ammendment 19.

Speaking for my family and my own child in the building, I'd rather figure out how to manage lunch time than sacrifice another kid's entire program. I'm also mindful that several elementary schools don't even have a lunch room and eat in their classrooms due to space crunches. We can be creative about the space constraints for a few years.


Spruiter said...

Just to clarify, Jane Addams K-8 was not consulted about the amendment to co-locate Pinehurst K-8 as a program within JA K-8 at John Marshall(Carr's amendment was not just co-housing, but a type of program merger). When the amendments were posted last week, the school responded.

Not to say it was OK for the district not to consult APP@ Lincoln, but they weren't the only impacted school left out of the engagement process for these amendments.

I'm not sure whose job it would be to do that engagement when these were board sponsored amendments, not ideas brought by staff. It seems like that would be the responsibility of the board member proposing the amendment.

Anonymous said...

I am glad that you enjoy Peaslee's favor- I have noticed she spends a lot more time trying to destroy APP than helping any other programs, though she's happy to help programs if that furthers her goal of harming APP. Personally I'm very excited to help whoever campaigns against her. I hope very much it's soon.

Of course Lincoln parents will be nice. Nobody's mad at Pinehurst, unless you want to perpetuate an inaccurate idea of how this went down. What actually happened here is they went to Thornton Creek, who said no; no one batted an eye. they went to JA k-8, who said no, and no one batted an eye. They TOLD Lincoln they would be sharing, YESTERDAY, having told Lincoln for months that there was no space available for 5 classroom spaces their own middle school program, so we absolutely had to split, right this second, and now there's uproar when Lincoln says the equivalent of "what?" Where's the ire at TCor the k-8? We have the exact same no space problems they do- the exact same ones. No core space. And the middle school split is predicated on the idea that there is no space- just the space Pinehurst is apparently going to use.

I don't think there is a school with less playspace than Lincoln's. JM's is great, actually, and has more core facilities. Or, if JAMS really doesn't do self contained for APP, I imagine there will be a lot of room there. Has Peaslee actually looked at the building? I mean, I know she'd have to hold her nose and actually see APP children, who she clearly would prefer not exist, but it might be worth a glance.


Anonymous said...

Peaslee doing some weird APP elem plan now, 11:15 pm - crazy. Think it's interim plan. Don't trust her.

her plan would be fully developed in 2014 and "implemented in 2015. Delay placement of Lincoln until Adv learning master plan is complete" (ie, don't put APP elem in WP, I assume ... this is her backdoor b/c she wants to shove the elem kids back into neighborhood schools, but hasn't been able to find a place to take them)

This is Peaslee's back door.

She is sort of saying this is board's job to develop? I don't understand.

McLaren: "I second ... but it's last minute. I'm wondering right now about how this would fit into our goals at this point ... "(is she having second thoughts?)

Tolley: TF is looking at how we identify. Next TF is looking at Service delivery model. THat work will result in creation of such a plan. What I shared was if intent or desire was implement 15-16 year, plan done by Dec 14 to move through spring implementation.

Carr: I get the idea, but it's late. I respectfully take exception this happened all sudden (from Peaslee). We red'c 100s of emails about not splitting cohort. We all rec'd emails not once but twice from woman who led research about cohort (MELISSA!!?? is that you?) - we also had letters from two superintendents to this community ... (APP)... [CARR YOU ROCK ON THIS TOPIC} she called out FAcmac stating splitting APP elem will break local elem. schools.
Signed: Kiss Carr4me

Anonymous said...

Exhausting! Lincoln will certainly welcome Pinehurst, because most of us probably are glad that Pinehurst lives to see another day.

But as good as Peaslee has been to Pinehurst, she has never darkened the door at Lincoln nor made any effort to reach out to APP parents for any kind of community engagement. So the fact that this space was off-limits to Hamilton APP middle-schoolers (many of whom are older sibs of the Lincoln population and will now be reassigned to JAMS) but can now be used to house another program - well, it's a little bitter pill to swallow at first.

We'll all get along in the end, though.

Lincoln family

Anonymous said...

Glad Pinehurst and IHP have been saved. We can make it work at Lincoln.

But what about the last-minute amendment by Directors Debell and Martin-Morris that kicks out 68 Hamilton APP 8th graders next year and sends them to JAMS?

Where was the community engagement on that?

Chances are good these families will instead choose their neighborhood Eckstein, especially music students.

--Sick of the Splits

Anonymous said...

The reason that 8th graders are being moved is because parents campaigned so hard against roll-ups. It was more important for some kids to have a larger middle school for 6th grade,than for other kids not to be ripped out their schools for 8th grade. It's all about what I want for my kid & to heck with any other kids. Well now we know the winners & losers.


mirmac1 said...

Ben at 11:08,


oldmom said...

@welcome, ben, 2boysclub

as an alum parent, i am so heartened to see app activists taking such a welcoming position. we are parents working for what is best for our kids but also for ALL of the kids. framing outcomes positively is the first step to making our children step into their schools ready to learn.

Ragweed said...

Couple of comments:

1. The response of the Thornton Creek community meeting has been seriously misrepresented by omission. Thornton Creek was very welcoming or Pinehurst in the Decatur building and very clear that they felt the district should save Pinehurst and support it. They did not want to merge or share staff with Pinehurst, or in any way endanger the integrity of their program, but were supportive of Pinehurst sharing the grounds with them.

2. We know that there will be a lot of challenges with the core space at Lincoln, particularly with regard to outside play areas. In some ways this will be more of a challenge for us than APP, since we have some vulnerable students where playgrounds can already be a challenge. I know that there are plans in the south wing renovation that will help partly address some concerns, and we will be engaging the planning team for the renovations to see what can be done. We would love to see that climbing wall come back online - Pinehurst currently has a climbing wall and a very successful climbing program, and we know there are some significant head-winds to trying to keep that program in another location.

3. I am perplexed by comments that JAK8 was not engaged. Enrollment planning documents going back to the fall of 2012 propose scenarios where JAK8 and PK8 were placed together at John Marshall. We did explore co-location with JAK8 last year and there was a general feeling the programs were not compatible for a long-run co-location.

There is more that could be said, particularly about how badly treated we have been by district staff in all of this. Our costs have been grossly misrepresented, community meetings have been overtly twisted to try to get the outcome they want, community input has been misrepresented, and some absurd arguments have been used against us. It has been a painful process.

We look forward to engaging with the APP community to share the space at Lincoln. I know it will not be easy, but I think we can make it work for two years.

Anonymous said...

I'm confused! Ragweed says " Thornton Creek was very welcoming of Pinehurst in the Decatur building and very clear that they felt the district should save Pinehurst and support it. THey did not want to merge or share staff with Pinehurst, or in any way endanger the integrity of their program, but were supportive of Pinehurst sharing the grounds with them. SOoooo, TC was Ok with Pinehurst - co-locating but not merging /sharing staff. So why did they abandon this site in order to have them co-locate Lincoln ( unless SPS actually has a secret plan afoot to merge admin/staff with Lincoln as well) ? TC has a huge amount of space and is geographically closer to the original school. Tell me why TC was rejected in favor of a less appropriate site -it is going to be much more challenging (for both schools) to roll this out. Where is the transparency - all we hear is that TC didn't want them and apparently that is misrepresenting the situation.
This district Sucks

Anonymous said...

We can look to the board itself for some of this misrepresentation, as Michael DeBell himself said in the meeting last night that Lincoln was not given notice of this new plan to bring Pinehurst to their facility.

What a failed board, and failed leadership.


Melissa Westbrook said...

Ragweed, this was a prime example of the district not telling the Board the ENTIRE story. I was a bit surprised at the explanation around TC and thank you for that update.

I think TC would have been a bit site choice than Lincoln (given the logistics at Lincoln). I am very glad for the "well, we can make it work" attitude of APP@Lincoln parents.

My goal is for the blog has always been two-fold.

One, a place for discussion and discourse (maybe heat but civil and looking for solutions).

Two, a place where we put it ALL on the table. Not just what the district wants or parents want but here's the whole enchilada. THEN, you can make an informed choice about what you support, like, whatever.

Only when you have the fullest picture can you make an informed opinion/choice.

That is what has always mattered to me.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Ragweed. I was about to chime in. TC is willing to co-locate (but not merge) with Pinehurst, but there is no space available in the interim (I haven't been to Lincoln but we have a portable farm and dinky bathrooms.) We would welcome PH as neighbors in the Decatur building or sharing the new one - as soon as it is built.

Remember, the district could net another building by maintaining two at the Olympic Hills site, like they are doing at the Decatur site.

Chris S.

Anonymous said...

I am sure tc was perfectly nice when they said "sorry, but it just won't work." just like Lincoln would have said...

Anonymous said...

Putting Pinehurst at Lincoln was just a way to validate the "need" to put all of NE APP at JAMS (no Hamilton annex at Lincoln).

It will be interesting to see how many APP kids with a dual assignment to Eckstein go there, instead. Maybe enough to compensate for the north-end kids would will get ripped out of their middle school (Eckstein) and placed at JAMS?

Yet, they are creating "diversity" (where?) by putting APP at JAMS and keeping Wedgwood at Eckstein.

I wish Pinehurst (AS-1)/Indian Heritage much luck, and hopefully Cedar Park will be an option for them at some point, because assigning 400 kids, mostly FRL and ELL, into a sub-standard building that is smaller than John Rogers is a scenario that I hope does not survive to see the light of day.

JR Mom

Polly said...

HIMS APP 8th graders may or may not choose Eckstein over JAMS, depends on if they are in advanced music and what JAMS will offer and how they feel about JAMS in general vs. Eckstein. If they go to Eckstein it would make geometry classes larger and biology an option there, one would think, if it's going to serve those students; biology is not currently not available. I know APP hates to hear it, but those students can increase rigor for students not in the program and this could make Eckstein a stronger school academically.

Anonymous said...

We don't hate to hear it, it's just not true. There won't be biology. Eckstein won't add classes because of a few students who might like it (at most, what, 20? They'll be Spectrum students, like the hundreds of Spectrum students already there, not able to get biology. It's 68 total students). APP students certainly do not increase the rigor of the schools they come from before they leave for not being served.


Anonymous said...

Here's my question: will kids who live in the Eckstein attendance area but currently attend HIMS APP be allowed to enroll in Spectrum at Eckstein rather than go to JAMS? Attachment 2 to the Intermediate Capacity Management Plan states that these for these kids it's "JAMS 6, 7 & 8; can stay at Eckstein as GenEd".

Does anyone have a definitive understanding of this issue? I thought this was the District's way of forcing APP to JAMS.

Clarity please

Polly said...

Do you know this are you being cynical? It may be a bad deal for APP to go to Eckstein, but, a silver lining for Spectrum kids and other advanced math and science students if the district would allow biology. It must be on the radar downtown.

Anonymous said...

If my read is right, then the district will not allow current APP kids to be Spectrum at Eckstein. They will have to be GenEd, or will have to go to JAMS.

That way the district doesn't have to provide biology, or any offering more advanced than is already offered at Eckstein.

No silver lining for Eckstein Spectrum students as a result.

Clarity please

Anonymous said...

For some APP students, Eckstein will work out fine. Others who need more of the cohort support for their individual learning needs will do better with APP. At least there is a choice. Call me an optimist, but the ground is moving. This madness may very well be the thing to shake up entrenched eckstein.


Anonymous said...

I know that that is the current policy and planning, better classes for what we do offer, not new offerings. Generally I am hearing about fewer offerings, aren't you? Are you there now? APP students won't be app students if they go to Eckstein, they'll be gen ed or Spectrum. This is what happens when app students go to Roosevelt, too. They repeat. Classes are offered to programs, not to students. There is no program that receives biology. And even if a third of APP kids opt for Eckstein, it's 20 kids. Not a lot. And who knows how many of those kids would take geometry, probably not enough for a whole section, so that will probably stay they same. I agree a larger cohort can increase math offerings., if the principal is supportive.

I should temper this with saying I think there could be biology some day, if the district increases rigor in middle schools across the board. But nothing about the Eckstein situation makes it likely that it will be next year.

Advocate for it anyway, though! I would much rather be wrong and have biology for my Eckstein student than right and not! But it'll be you, not the magic of APP students, getting it.


Ragweed said...

Further clarification on Thornton Creek / Decatur building.

Thornton Creek is currently in the Decatur building. The Building is full and they have a wailist. There would be no option for Pinehurst to land at the TC site in the interim period (2014-2016) and it was never on the table. It was and is not an alternative to Lincoln.

There will be a new, 650 seat K-5 school that will be built on the TC property, which will open in 2016 and is the expected future home of Thornton Creek. At that time Decatur will be empty (at the moment slated as an emergency / interim site. The Thornton Creek community was very welcoming of the idea of Pinhurst landing here in 2016 as an Independant school with its own staff.

There is still a chance that Native Heritage AS1 could land there in 2016, but the Native community feels stronly about the Wilson Pacific site due to the old Indian Heritage School, Andrew Morrisons murals (which look like they will be preserved in the new WilPac buildings) etc. But for the interim site, the choice is Lincoln or John Marshall, unless they wanted to bus us 15 miles south to Van Asselt.

Polly said...

Two things,
Geometry is a given, there are 7th graders in Algebra 1 as we speak. My hope would be that APP parents and their students who decide to go to Eckstein would join with others already there to demand biology. APP has the argument of kids having to repeat 8th grade science, which should be compelling. My understanding for other middle schools was an APP designation was a guarantee of Spectrum placement, or honors, in LA. This must be the case for Eckstein, not a gened assignment. I think the issue is not trying to force APP into JAMS, but having the cohort available there. It rings of a hardball play and perhaps down the road, JAMS will be the only cohorted APP middle school site in the north. If Eckstein gets a sizable number of of APP next year and some sort of blending works out, when Whitman gets its contingent and Hamilton APP shrinks sufficiently, they may both go blended. If the district wants that to fly, they have to offer bio and honors science leading up to It.

Polly said...

I mean there are 7th graders in geometry as we speak as there are at other middle schools. Algebra II will be available at Eckstein and Whitman and McClure, I don't know about down south.
What I want to see is biology.

Anonymous said...


Could you please take a look at Attachment 2 to the Intermediate Capacity Management Plan on the SPS website? It's part of the Nov 20th agenda for the board meeting.

In that attachment, it states that for "APP in Eckstein AA", the assignent for 2014-2018 is "JAMS 6, 7 & 8; can stay at Eckstein as GenEd".

I do hope you are right that current HIMS APP kids would get a Spectrum guarantee, but I fear that is not the case.

I think this was the district's response to families who said they would just go back to their neighborhood school. That would mess up enrollment projections, and JAMS would not have a sufficient number of kids. I do think they are playing hardball here.

I would love to be wrong! Can anyone provide

Clarity please

Ragweed said...

Not if anyone is still following these comments, but I wanted to add a note about the lunchroom situation.

The Capacity and Facility Condition Review: North and South Wings of Lincoln Building says "The modernization project includes restroom improvements/additions, and will expand the capacity of, and ingress/egress to the lunchroom in the Central Wing."

So hopefully that will address some of the issues.

playground please said...

It won't fix the lunchroom problem, ragweed, but we can make it work in other ways. Kids who don't need to buy lunch can eat in the classrooms or hallways. Kids won't care as long as they are with their buddies. Now, if you can help us fight for any type of playground, my kid's heart and lungs will thank you! PE 30 minutes a day every third week isn't doing much for the ticker.