BEX IV Meeting at Mercer
I attended the BEX IV meeting at Mercer middle school. It was horrible.
There was a presentation followed by questions off cards followed by questions asked aloud. I have no idea why there were two different question methods. It didn't matter. No matter what the question, the answer was gobbledy-gook.
I asked why the District is determined to create 700 additional elementary seats in the McClure service area (200 at Queen Anne and 500 at South Lake Union) when the District's enrollment projections show that the capacity shortfall is only 70 seats. Please remember that this "shortfall" doesn't account for any students who may leave the area for APP or an option program outside the service area. Ms McEvoy, someone I had previously regarded as candid and apolitical, gave me a bizarre and contorted response about - believe it or not - APP. She seemed to say that the District was building the school at South Lake Union for APP. When I asked her if that was what she meant, she said no in very strong terms. I was finally, after way too much effort, able to assist her in saying that the estimate of enrollment demand in the McClure service area was totally wrong. So why didn't she just say that? What are the correct numbers? She doesn't know. They don't have another estimate, but they believe that the current estimate - the one they are presenting - is completely wrong.
Community engagement isn't going to work if the District is so resistant to the possibility that they are wrong about something - especially when they know they are wrong about it.
My question was just one of several in which citizens asked rational questions based in fact and got nonsensical answers from Pegi McEvoy. People asked about the small size of the middle school planned for Meany. People asked why the construction comes before the program planning instead of after it. People asked why the plans to add capacity in the Washington service area also far outstrips the estimated need for capacity. People asked what benefit comes from closing Roxhill. Pegi McEvoy did not offer a rational response to any of these questions. She was a disaster. She could not have damaged the District's credibility more if she tried.
There was a presentation followed by questions off cards followed by questions asked aloud. I have no idea why there were two different question methods. It didn't matter. No matter what the question, the answer was gobbledy-gook.
I asked why the District is determined to create 700 additional elementary seats in the McClure service area (200 at Queen Anne and 500 at South Lake Union) when the District's enrollment projections show that the capacity shortfall is only 70 seats. Please remember that this "shortfall" doesn't account for any students who may leave the area for APP or an option program outside the service area. Ms McEvoy, someone I had previously regarded as candid and apolitical, gave me a bizarre and contorted response about - believe it or not - APP. She seemed to say that the District was building the school at South Lake Union for APP. When I asked her if that was what she meant, she said no in very strong terms. I was finally, after way too much effort, able to assist her in saying that the estimate of enrollment demand in the McClure service area was totally wrong. So why didn't she just say that? What are the correct numbers? She doesn't know. They don't have another estimate, but they believe that the current estimate - the one they are presenting - is completely wrong.
Community engagement isn't going to work if the District is so resistant to the possibility that they are wrong about something - especially when they know they are wrong about it.
My question was just one of several in which citizens asked rational questions based in fact and got nonsensical answers from Pegi McEvoy. People asked about the small size of the middle school planned for Meany. People asked why the construction comes before the program planning instead of after it. People asked why the plans to add capacity in the Washington service area also far outstrips the estimated need for capacity. People asked what benefit comes from closing Roxhill. Pegi McEvoy did not offer a rational response to any of these questions. She was a disaster. She could not have damaged the District's credibility more if she tried.
Comments
The question is, what can we do about it? We're all stuck with this office as it is. How can we fix (or at least mitigate) the dysfunction?
So I have a hard time believing they need 700 seats. 70-100 seems about right actually, which means that they need to fill their schools and use a few portables before a $32 million school is built.
Oh and isn't there also space at TOPS?
Come on, my BS meter is ringing loud and clear and would really like to know who/what is driving this SLU project.
Program placement planning needs to come before construction planning.
Every single person, Dr. Thompson, Mr. Wolf, Ms McEvoy, everyone acknowledged that the process was wrong-headed, yet none of them believed that they had any ability or authority to fix it - or to even stand up and say that it was backwards.
This issue of not having data at the ready for these meetings also came up at Eckstein. Why they would think that enrollment numbers wouldn't be important to have on-hand is hard to understand.
You are correct in the McClure is not full.
But you are wrong about the overall elementary capacity on Queen Anne.
John Hay is more than 100 students over capacity. Queen Anne Elementary (QAE) will be full (at 350) this fall as the enrollment builds from Kindergarten up. Coe is at capacity.
When the district counts enrollment in the McClure cluster, they are NOT including the 250 students currently at QAE. And since QAE is slated for 450 students in the near future, they are way undercounting potential enrollment at McClure.
QAE is slated for BEX IV funding in options 2 and 3. Those dollars are for adding classrooms to accomodate the additional 100 students projected (to 450) as well as a gym and other community spaces i.e. a lunchroom that are non-existent now.
When the property at 4th and Boston was abandoned 20 years ago and deemed unfit for students, the new John Hay was built. Yes, the recent upgrades to the QAE property made is usable for an elementary school but it is not ready for 450 students in any way, shape or form. Current classrooms are 70% of the size of a typical elmentary classroom and there aren't enough to hold the students.
The discussion on QAE needs to be separate from the SLU school discusion. The McClure projections are wrong and QAE needs the upgrade.
QAE Parent
I had no idea that when it comes to public engagement there was anything there to damage.
(1) TFA => no public engagement (propaganda sessions provided by TFA were substituted for the public engagement)
(2) School Board testimony time reduced to 2 minutes.
.... need I continue? etc. etc. etc.
================
The following is how SPS leadership performs
Every single person, Dr. Thompson, Mr. Wolf, Ms McEvoy, everyone acknowledged that the process was wrong-headed, yet none of them believed that they had any ability or authority to fix it - or to even stand up and say that it was backwards.
WOW -- these folks like the Board and the Superintendent -- show little ability to accomplish much other than serve "the powers that be".
The SPS superintendent, Board, and central administration are apparently simply agents of the Oligarchs no matter what the topic or issue.
Your capacity figures still don't add up to needing 700 seats in the area. And the QAE upgrade creates additional capacity. I am not saying that capacity issues don't need to be discussed for QA; it's when I hear that they are using faulty QA numbers to justify the need for a $32 million SLU school my BS meter sounds.
In a quick real estate search, there are about 20 places for sale right now in SLU. All are studios, 1 or 2 beds. There is one 3 bed for $2.2 million. If I was a parent looking for a place to live, this area would not hit my radar since the places for sale would be small and expensive for a family of 3 or 4.
So, is there some huge development planned that has larger and affordable housing? And if so, when do they break ground on it?
We got space in QA/ Magnolia cluster.
-sky isn't falling here
Some years ago we helped form the Center School, which I believe is an all city high school now. I suspect Ballard H.S. is full now that it is serving Q.A. and Magnolia. It does not surprise me that our elementary schools are busy and these higher enrollments will ripple through middle and high schools later.
If the District wants a SLU school, however, they should get financial support from the businesses whose workers would benefit. Time to step up, Amazon and the Gates Foundation. Just don’t add strings related to unproven ed reform agendas.
Seattle Public Schools need to improve also. They have to stop being emergency capacity planners and get back to academics. The math curriculum must improve but they refuse to look at the data to make adjustments. It sounds like their construction management. No critical thinking.
S parent
I just want to make sure that people understand that the needs for improvements at QAE are real and right now - especially with projections of 450 and neighboring elmentary schools being full/overfull.
The SLU issue I can't speak to - agreed that if that happens, it should be funded by all the companies that are driving growth in that area.
QAE Parent
In the larger perspective, the McClure service area only needs another 70 elementary seats according to the District's enrollment projections. QAE may be overcrowded, but the facilities guys reported last night that Lawton, Blaine, and Hay are under-subscribed.
There is no demand now, nor is there any predicted demand, for the 500 seats proposed at the South Lake Union elementary.
Yet there are 500 plus living breathing students in Lincoln that need a building.
Ironic.
for real... the facilities guys said Lawton, Blaine and Hay are undersubscribed? Is that way out in the future? Can't be now or in the near future.
Lawton is at capacity I think. I remember from capacity meetings several years ago that portables aren't an option there b/c of the footprint of the school on the property.
Blaine.. not sure whether they're at capacity, but only a few years ago they had to subdivide classrooms (and adding portables maybe???) to accomodate growth.
And I think the kids at Hay are having class in the hall b/c they're packed. Right?
McClure isn't full now but since QAE is an option school and (I was told) isn't counted in the MS enrollment projections. If those kids move the McClure, it'll be full in no time.
That's not to say that other areas of Seattle have a better or worse situation of course.
-shorty
Do you know the answer to this question? I was at the Eckstein meeting and about fell out of my chair when they showed that Hamilton had extra capacity for years into the future. Everyone who is in the building, knows that this is not true. Is APP really not counted in projected capacity numbers? From the other posts here, it sounds like elementary option schools also aren't counted in middle school numbers. How can the district possibly get a handle on enrollment if they aren't counting the kids?
-in disbelief
I don't suppose it is lost on anyone with a sense of history that the District pulled NOVA out of Mann and now they want to move it back to Mann.
When they looked at adding portables for individual elementary schools, didn't they look at actual enrollment and overcapacity at each school?
What doesn't make sense is how crowding at individual schools impacts the BEX planning. There's a disconnect between overall numbers and individual schools and programs.
confused
No kidding folks. The District enrollment planning folks count all of the SPS middle school students who live in the Hamilton service area and they count all of the seats at Hamilton and they declare that there is plenty of room at Hamilton for all of them.
They neglect to consider that APP students take up about 350 of those seats so there are 350 less seats than their counts show. They know that. They know that APP is there. They simply choose to ignore the fact. They choose to be wrong.
Let's cast our memories back to the days when the NSAP was proposed. At that time the District staff said that they would consider the programs in the school and then right size the attendance areas for the available seats for neighborhood kids. If Hamilton had a total capacity of 900 and the District expected 300 APP students there, they would say that they had 600 seats available for neighborhood kids.
But that's not what they are doing. They are counting all 900 seats as if they are available for neighborhood kids even though they know that the seats have already been taken.
I suspect that they already have a plan, something like moving APP out of Hamilton and up to Wilson Pacific, which BEXIV lists as adding 1,000 new middle school seats.
The only thing that makes sense about not including APP in the Hamilton numbers is if in fact they have already decided to relocate the program but just haven't announced it.
Frustrated North Delridge Mom
I do have a question about how the district goes about choosing where to open schools and/or build schools. Under the old system, if a school filled, you capped it and additional kids had to go elsewhere; now, obviously, kid's are entitled to a particular school. But what school? As I posted in another thread, there is a half-empty school near SLU right now (Lowell). Is it that kids in SLU (if all of this new development materializes and indeed is filled with kid's) specifically are entitled to a school within easy walking distance? I'm less interested in what the right answer is to that question (my opinion is that it is cheaper to bus kids a short distance than to open a new school, but others might think the importance of a walking-distance school outweighs cost savings) than I am in whether the district has any guidelines or policies according to which they make these decisions.
real world
Yet, she must feel empowered to do the right thing, speak the truth, not just soothing maxims.
IF she wants to be taken seriously, then that is what she must do.
Projections for Schmitz Park next year. All of 5th, all of 4th, all of 3rd and one 2nd grade class will be in portables next year (15 portables total).
Only K and 1st will fully be in the school building itself. Its beyond ridiculous.
I would agree if the issue was "needed." It isn't. It's wanted and there's a different between a need and a want.
There is no data that either the City or the district has presented. There are other schools in that area that have room. We have schools with buildings that are over-capacity and/or in very poor condition.
And where is this land to build on? Hard to build a school on air.
Also, I believe I saw some data that showed that Madison would have excess seats in the future. How can that be, when ALL of the North WS elementaries are basically bursting at the seams? Does anyone know the actual capacity of Madison?
The capacity problems are in the K-2 grades, a bubble that won't hit Madison until say 2015. Yes, ironic that Madison will suffer reduced allocation because of how the boundaries were redrawn for MS attendance areas, while Lafayette has well over 500 kids.
Is is unfortuante that those who pushed the K-5 STEM faddish bandaid were not thinking of the other 2,500 K-5 in WS.